Adventures in the skin trade

Thor

Thor Iverson
Apologies to the assembled experts for the well-covered ground of the introduction; what follows is as presented elsewhere, for a more general audience, and thus requiring the background. But herein, as promised/threatened, a mostly safe-for-work recounting of a night in New York in which the flesh was most decidedly pressed.

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Show me some skin! That, at least, was the plea. Skin there was, and a lot of it. Flesh everywhere, on naked display in a steamy den of iniquity, itinerancy, and ice buckets.

Maybe I should explain.

All and sundry or perhaps mostly just the sundry gathered from far and wide at Convivios swanky Tudor City digs, under the glowering eyes of Ivan Lendl-look-alike (and, it must be admitted, ultra-talented restaurant wine dude) Levi Dalton, for food, frolic, and bitterness. The latter stemming from an intense, in-depth assessment of a wine so unusual that it required an entirely new color category orange to go along with the previously-sufficient red, white, and pink.

What is an orange wine? Im not particularly glad you asked, because I have no better handle on the label than anyone else. In general, the idea is that its a white wine produced with the extended skin contact characteristic of reds, which (especially among the darker-skinned white varieties) does indeed produce deeper, more intense colors ranging from straw through strawberry, and also renders the wine noticeably tannic. The wines are usually (but not always) left in the un-clarified, overtly cloudy state that seems to result. And that, at the core, is that. There are other philosophical branches and fields of practice within the orange wine family, some of them quite populousnon-filtration, avoidance of sulfur, aging in custom-made amphorae, and so forth. The category as a whole also maintains a good deal of contact with the ever-growing natural wine movement, but in truth the orange wines would more correctly be accused of being throwbacks to a much, much older type of winemaking, and natural-ness is no requirement for the style.

For some, in fact, orange wines are anything but natural, no matter how historical a vinification they might represent. The transformation of a white wine into such a state, the argument goes, is as profound a manipulation as any. Theres merit to the argument, with only the caveat that the manipulation in question belongs to the class of grape-native cellar techniques that do not add or remove anything from the wine that doesnt already exist in the grape, a distinction which, for some, makes a difference. The wines bear no relation to the truly transformational field known as molecular gastronomy, but they do share one thing in common with that realm: a direct and forceful challenge to ones expectations of identity and typicity.

But no matter ones philosophical view, the wines are different, and naturally divide opinions. Some cannot abide them. Others love them with a religious fervor. For both, the price usually elevated in comparison to normal whites is a limiting factor, but one surpassed by availability; there arent many of these wines to begin with, total production often ranges between limited and anecdotal, and thus theyre notoriously hard to find. Many enthusiastic wine drinkers will pass their entire drinking lifespan without encountering an orange wine. But for the seeker of vinous sensation, or at least of individuality, the opportunity to assemble and experience a (to my knowledge) unsurpassed collection of such wines in one place cannot reasonably be ignored.

It is often said, and widely believed, that the geographical heart of the orange wine movement is the Friulian/Slovenian border. Theres a certain truth to that, especially as its controversial father-figure Josko Gravner is located there, but the world of orange wines is a wider one these days. Italy still provides a majority of the names, but theres also Slovenia and Croatia, and even France and California are now in the game.

But enough introduction. What about the wines?

One of the vexing issues with the orange wine cohort is finding amenable food pairings. The one ingredient on which everyone seems to agree is sea urchin not exactly everyday fare for most but the trick seems to be focusing on the structure and weight of the wines rather than a particular set of aromas. For example, the familiar tannin/fat counterpoint works as well here as it does with similarly-structured reds. Still, theres a bit of a guessing game involved, and even the most inspired matches dont necessarily meld with the wines, which are inherently cranky, iconoclastic, and less than enthusiastic about playing well with others.

For example, heres what Convivio came up with. Despite the difficulties of the food/wine marriage, all of it was of uniform excellence. Did it enhance the wines? Sometimes, yes. Frequently, no. Yet I sincerely doubt any alternative choices would have improved matters. Such are the pitfalls of dining on the vinous edge.

sfizi
olives, marinated mushrooms, several types of bruschetta, arancini

sgombro
sliced yellowtail crudo, olivada, caper, pistachio

dentice
Mediterranean snapper, fava bean pure, cuttlefish, radish, mint, almond salad

malloreddus
Sardinian saffron gnocchetti, crab, sea urchin

grigliata mista
grilled pork belly, house-made sausage, lentil salad, ricotta salata

formaggi

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There was also a valiant attempt to impose a certain order on the tasting, which succeeded about as well as the food/wine pairings. Again, there is no fault to be laid at the feet (or the mind) of anyone responsible; the wines are just too unpredictable, and react to each other in surprising ways, confounding even the most careful organization. More successful were thematic micro-groupingsfor example, a series of wines made by the Bea family, or a comparison of older Gravner and Radikon in matched vintagesfrom which certain continuities of style and differences in approach could be identified. The most unfortunate outcome of the organizational effort, however, was that it kept Levi Dalton on his feet, serving and explaining, for the vast majority of a tasting that one would have hoped he could sit back and enjoy. Alas. Perhaps there will have to be a sequel.

The only other misstep, minor and soon corrected, was the temperature of some of the wines. The room was warm (and got warmer as the well-lubricated badinage escalated), so in an attempt to keep wines from overheating to unpalatability, ice buckets were employed. This was a fine idea, except that it meant many of the early wines were served chilled. This is almost always a mistake with orange wines for the same reason its problematic with structured reds: tannin overwhelms the wine, and complexities are muted. As the evening went on, this was corrected (another way in which our generous host was overworked), and even for the affected wines a little hand-warming of glasses soon brought the liquid into form.

The notes that follow are not presented in the order in which the wines were tasted. And an important caveat theyre much shorter than Id prefer. My typical orange wine note is a lengthy paragraph, which seems justified for wines that defy convention and easy categorization, but given the format and the speed of new arrivals, there was simply not much time to spend with each wine, teasing out each hidden notion and ribald suggestion.

C de Noci 2007 nottediluna (Emilia-Romagna) Stale paper with a bouquet of flowers in slow emergence. Acrid. This needsI dont know. But it needs something. And less of some other things. (7/09)

C de Noci 2006 nottediluna (Emilia-Romagna) Lush pear and apricot. Almost buttery. Somewhat flamboyant, but its an appealing showmanshipflirtatious, yet classy. (7/09)

C de Noci 2005 riserva dei fratelli (Emilia-Romagna) Sparkling, though its more of a slushy froth than a proper ptillance. Apple and acid, with light bitterness and a fresh finish. However, the nose is odd, and mostly absent. Some are moved to a tentative declaration of cork taint (oddly, all such are female), but the importer (who is present) says not. Still, he agrees that the wine seems off in some fashion. (7/09)

Casa Coste Piane 2006 Prosecco di Valdobbiadene Tranquillo (Veneto) Dry as a desert, and rather desert-like in its lack of visible life. I liked this wine a lot more last month. (7/09)

Castello di Lispida 2002 Amphora Bianco (Veneto) Rich, dark, dusted with cocoa, and luxuriant with the texture of cocoa butter. A very full and blossomy wine, and one that would easily fool many into thinking its a red in a true blind tasting. (7/09)

Castello di Lispida 2002 Terralba (Veneto) Soft and pretty apricot flowers with a little kiss of sweet nectar. But then, the wine just sort of disappears. Where did it go? (7/09)

Clai Bijele Zemlje 2007 Malvazija Sveti Jakov (Istra) Solid, by which I mean uniformly dense rather than well-executed. Plays at being interesting, but it lacks the depth to follow through on its initial promise. (7/09)

Cornelissen 2007 MunJebel 4 Bianco (Sicily) Pine, melting cedar candle, orange rind, and coal. Theres a medium-toned brown hum to the wine, but a sharp declension on the finish; with a little more linger, this could be a star. As it is, its merely fascinating, but the fascination is brief. I somewhat preferred a 3 (from 2006) tasted earlier this year. (7/09)

Damijan 2003 Kaplja (Collio) Fat tangerine. Short and blowsy. It seems that some orange wines cant avoid being victimized by this vintage, though there are exceptions. This isnt one of them. (7/09)

Damijan 2004 Kaplja (Collio) A lovely nose of ripe fruit, flowers, and confiture, but the palate is separated and disappointing. (7/09)

de Conciliis 2004 Antece (Campania) Bitter almond soap with the texture of a whiteout blizzard, and a little sherried throughout. Simple and direct. (7/09)

Massa Vecchia 2005 Maremma Toscana Bianco (Tuscany) A bit of a brett bomb, though eventually the wine starts to show things other than fetid stench, including a silky palate that glides and skates as if on the smoothest ice. A little more attention to hygiene, and this would be a beauty. (7/09)

Gravner 1997 Ribolla Gialla (Venezia Giulia) Heavy, but its a good weight. Lush with mandarin-scented Madeleine, plus cotton candy whipped with tart threads. Theres a slightly bitter, Campari-esque note which seems like it should be an off character, yet the wine benefits from the counterpoint. This is aging very nicely, and while it doesnt seem to be showing signs of decline, its very likely that I have no idea what those signs might be for this particular wine. (7/09)

Gravner 2000 Ribolla Gialla (Venezia Giulia) Sweet yellow cherry with some oddities I cant quite identify. Whatevers going on, its tasty enough but a little distracting. Long. (7/09)

Gravner 2001 Ribolla Gialla Amphora (Venezia Giulia) Slightly bitter, and this time the bitterness takes the form of vanilla, especially on the backpalate. Leafy. A sharp left turn from the pre-amphora ribollas. (7/09)

Gravner 2001 Breg Amphora (Venezia Giulia) Bitter almond and apple, with tight layers of complexity and minerality pressed together like an Austrian pastry. Theres a swaggering confidence to this wine that few others of its type can pull off. Yet this is not to say that its better, necessarily, just that its more overtly self-assured. (7/09)

Hautes Terres de Comberousse 2001 Cuve Roucaillat (Languedoc) Fat, overly lactic, and kind of nasty. (7/09)

Kante 2006 Sauvignon Blanc (Carso) The most identifiably-varietal wine in the room, and by a wide margin, though much of that is the familiarity of sauvignon. Is this actually a skin-contact white? It shows few of the characteristics of one, with its vibrant, zingy gooseberry, sharp-edged minerality, and lavish acidity. A good wine, but it seems out of place in this crowd. (7/09)

Angiolino Maule La Biancara 1996 Taibane (Veneto) Soft. Strawberry, peach, and blood orange. This needs a lot more structure, which is something I didnt think Id be able to say about an orange wine.(7/09)

La Stoppa 2004 Ageno (Emilia-Romagna) Dark metallic orange with a heady rush of deep minerality. Sophisticated and striking. Absolutely delicious. (7/09)

Monastero Suore Cistercensi S.O. Trappiste 2007 Coenobium (Lazio) Simple grapefruit rind, with a light spicing dominated by white pepper. And is that celery? Its like a stealth grner veltliner has entered the room and is masquerading as a baby orange wine. This is initially fairly disappointing, but gains a measure of weight and texture with extended aeration. Unfortunately, I dont have time to explore this in more detail. (7/09)

Monastero Suore Cistercensi S.O. Trappiste 2006 Coenobium (Lazio) Bigger and fuller-bodied than the 2007, showing a blend of red and Rainier cherries. Round, yet theres a washed-out quality to the finish, as if the wine rather clumsily gives its all right at the start, and has nothing left for the duration of the race. (7/09)

Monastero Suore Cistercensi S.O. Trappiste 2007 Coenobium Rusticum (Lazio) Extremely tannic. Metal and charred orange, maybe even a bit of ash. Acid-dominated on the finish, which is extremely long. Tight and no fun. My last bottle of this was a stunner. What happened? (7/09)

Bea 2004 Arboreus (Umbria) Sweet spice. Round, pretty, and very complete. This is the wine version of Miles In a Silent Way, and thats high praise from me. (7/09)

Movia 2007 Ribolla Gialla Lunar (Gorika Brda) Delish. I know it probably wants to be serious, but really its more like a Greek island beach partyalbeit from several hundred years ago. No tropical umbrellas here. Very appealing, and in an immediate way. (7/09)

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Radikon 2001 Ribolla Gialla (Venezia Giulia) Tight, metal-jacketed plum. A bit hot, which is something Ive not previously experienced from this wine. Somewhat indifferent. Perhaps an off bottle (or an off taster). (7/09)

Radikon 2003 Jakot (Venezia Giulia) Some alcohol here, plus pear and raw, exposed metal. Fat. The heat lingers into the finish. (7/09)

Radikon 1997 Ribolla Gialla Riserva Ivana (Venezia Giulia) Soft fullness and salty white soil. Seems more mild-mannered than it actually istheres a fair bit of complexity and depthbut the wines gentle in every aspect. Theres a very slight edge of heat creeping into the margins, but otherwise all is seamless. This isnt aging so much as cohering, and in a very appealing way. (7/09)

Scholium Project 2006 San Floriano del Collio Rocky Hill (Sonoma Mountain) The reddest of all the wines; this could easily pass for a dark ros, rather than an orange wine, and at 16.9% alcohol its pushing what few boundaries remain. Par for the Scholium course, I guess. Grassy and greasy, yet with sharp-edged pistachios, some fatness, and (big surprise) noticeable alcohol. Anise, as well, pus maraschino cherries and rather intense minerality. In its less admirable moments, it also smells more than a bit like a fetid poire william eau de vie, but I dont mean to be overly discouraging; I like this more than Ive ever liked a Scholium Project wine (granted, the competition for this title has not been fierce). (7/09)

Vodopivec 2003 Vitovska (Venezia Giulia) Big blood orange, juiced and pumped full of oxygen (by which I dont mean oxidation, nor microbullage, but a breath-inducing vivacity), with a core of steel and walnuts on the finish. Powerful. (7/09)

Vodopivec 2004 Vitovska (Venezia Giulia) Clementine and aluminum. Fat. Short. And disappointing. (7/09)

Vodopivec 2004 Vitovska solo | MM4 (Collio Goriziano) Direct and forceful, but to what end? The power seems in service of vanishingly little. Maybe its just shy, but this is a rather intense void at the moment. Perhaps its a singularity of some sort. An black orange hole? (7/09)

Wind Gap 2007 Pinot Gris (Russian River Valley) Spicy pear with a slightly lactic note, but not enough to be unpleasant. Intense, big, long, and luscious. Way more interesting than anything the Scholium Project has produced. (7/09)

Zidarich 2005 Malvasia (Carso) Full and spicy, but ends rather abruptly. Simple memories of walnut are all that linger. (7/09)

Zidarich 2005 Vitovska (Carso) Mixed nuts. Very tannic, and edging towards desiccation. Simple, and in fact more than a little boring. (7/09)

After the orange lineup (during which I apparently skipped noting one wine, though I do remember end-of-evening confusion over an extra glass before me), theres a bit of a reddish coda. Frankly, after the relentless surreality of this tasting, its like a return to real winenot more natural or authentic, but at least recognizable ground. I can feel my palate sigh in relief, but whats more striking is the way that the sensory realms of my brain sort of unclench, as if theyve been operating in a state of high tension for the last few hours.

Cappellano 2005 Nebbiolo dAlba (Piedmont) Dusty red fruit, soft yet strong, with a nearly flawless texture. Absolutely classic nebbiolo, masterfully presented. (7/09)

Leroy 1983 Volnay (Burgundy) Pretty. Very, very pretty. Showily so. And strikingly youthful; the structures resolved, but the fruit is still fairly primary and direct. I dont quite know what to make of this, but admittedly my palate is completely exhausted at this point. (7/09)

My favorites of the tasting? The Arboreus, certainly, and the Ageno. The 2006 C de Noci, the 2002 Lispida (but not the Terralba), the Vodopivec 2003, and most of the Gravner lineup. And, it must be said, the Wind Gap, which was the most pleasant surprise of the nightespecially considering my much dimmer opinion of the winemakers former project.

Disappointments? A few, most notably a couple of the Radikons, for which I cannot account (Im normally a great admirer of the wines), and which I will thus chalk up to some brief weirdness in a food/wine, wine/wine, or wine/taster interaction. The other C de Nocis, both Zidarich bottlingsand I could go on, but wont. Truth be told, a lot of these wines showed seams, lacks, and occasionally outright faults. However, I think there might be a reason for that performance. Read on.

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Tasting a bunch of wines is always fun (unless theyre terrible, which these most definitely were not) but from the above-noted level of focus and direction, one does hope that there are lessons to be learned and conclusions to be drawn. And I think there are.

The claim has occasionally been made that the orange wine regimen, like oak or botrytis, so heavily marks the wines that it trumps varietal character, terroir, and even individuality. This set of wines shows that to be mostly nonsense; theres plenty of diversity evident, and the wines are as different as one would expect them to be in any other context. Grapes do show, though perhaps not with the consistency exhibited in more typical wines. As for terroir, there is at least (in many cases) sub-regional continuity between these and more prosaic wines from their neighborhoods, though to say more than that would be to claim an illegitimate expertise. So why the caveat mostly? Because of the tannin, which in some (not all) of the wines enforces an identifiable structural similaritya sort of pedal tone around which the other elements must work. When it plays a harmonious role, its the foundation on which the wines art and architecture are built. When it doesnt, its the squawky drone of a wheezing, decrepit bagpipe.

Another much-asked question is whether or not orange wines age. Theres really not enough evidence here to say for sure. Certainly the few older wines present seem to have aged just fine, softening in the way one would expect tannic wines to soften. As the tannin melts, creamier textures emerge. That said, many of these wines very much rely on that tannin for counterpoint. Once it's gone, the result is a lushness almost entirely opposite the face these wines present in their youth. As with any aging process, opinions will differ on the stage at which the wines are most intriguing. The only tentative conclusion I feel safe drawing is that the curious can probably age the better of these wines without fear of precipitous decline. On the other hand, one may reasonably fear biological instability in those wines that avoid filtration, sulfur, and other methods of stabilization; while their structure is itself preservationist in nature, not all of the wines are entirely clean, or have avoided oxidation. I would not age the more natural wines absent a properly-controlled cellar.

Some of the wines Ive always felt I loved were, in this context, less impressive than expected. Others performed above their pay grade. Perhaps surprising, perhaps not, but this is why one hold tastingsto learn just this sort of thing. I must also presume that, as in any quick-take tasting of a fair number of wines, concentration and intensity are more favorably received than they might be in isolation, The corollary conclusion that delicacy is inevitably devalued or even lost must also be considered. As ever, such tastings do not replicate the experience of a slow encounter with a single bottle.

Perhaps the most surprising conclusion, for me, is that I didnt enjoy tasting these wines in this particular fashion nearly as much as I had hoped. The dinner, the tasting, the camaraderieall were enormous fun, and definitely worth the participatory effort (though I will admit to a savage headache the next morning). But while I adore a lot of these wines in isolation, in concert my affection for them dimmed, and I was surprised how indifferent I was to the qualities of all but a few bottles. It could be that the accumulated negativity is a result of the rather overpowering and aggressive nature of the wines, which were more of a chore to slog through than Id expected. Also, there was an extremely draining mental aspect; teasing out the complexities and the wildly individualistic essences of orange wines is a difficult enough task to begin with, but doing it as bottles fly past, food arrives, and tablemates chatter away is a perhaps insurmountable challenge to even the most intense attempt at concentration. I was tired at the end of this tasting, but mentally far more than physically, and even writing about the experience several days after the fact brings forth a clear physical sensation of sensory fatigue.

It would be intriguing to explore this matter further. But as I write this, my overriding emotion is that Id like or perhaps I need a short break from orange wines. My curiosity has been somewhat over-satisfied, and my palate is suffering burn-in. In the end, it turns out that the scolds and the finger-waggers were right: its possible to show too much skin.
 
originally posted by Thor:

La Stoppa 2004 Ageno (Emilia-Romagna) Dark metallic orange with a heady rush of deep minerality. Sophisticated and striking. Absolutely delicious. (7/09)

there was some disagreement about this wine, but i agree. gorgeous! and, for my money, with the gnocchetti, crab and uni, the pairing of the night!
 
ps - love the dylan thomas tie in!

"...theres sense in everything. Theres bound to be. Otherwise we wouldnt be able to carry on, would we?"
 
The Movia Lunar '07 seems to have gone missing, along with the Vinotera Kisi. Just to mention because there was some discussion about number in the other thread.

For me the big reveal of the night, maybe because I went in looking for it, was the difference between the '01 Gravner Ribolla Amphora and the '00 Gravner Ribolla. The Amphora use really ameliorated the acid level, as much as that can be determined from two different vintages.

Certain wines showed better than they normally do, some worse. I would single out the Ageno as particularly monstrous on that night.

Just on a technical level, I would note that nothing except the Taibane (which throws ridiculous gummy worm sediment) was decanted. I wanted to keep an even playing field in a way, for the sake of comparisons. But clearly most of the Gravner would have benefited from some decanting, amongst others. For some offerings it would have been a detriment.
 
Well done and in impressively immediate fashion.
It's either now or well into next week, so it might as well be now.

there was some disagreement about this wine, but i agree. gorgeous! and, for my money, with the gnocchetti, crab and uni, the pairing of the night!
It Stoppa'd me in my tracks, for sure.

The Movia Lunar '07 seems to have gone missing
Note-taker idiocy. I have a note on it. I'll add it momentarily.

Vinotera Kisi
But alas, that one went un-notated.

For me the big reveal of the night, maybe because I went in looking for it, was the difference between the '01 Gravner Ribolla Amphora and the '00 Gravner Ribolla. The Amphora use really ameliorated the acid level, as much as that can be determined from two different vintages.
That, yes, plus older Gravner (and Radikon) in general. I've had the opportunity to do single-bottle examinations in Venice & Friuli, and a little bit more study at Radikon itself, but having all these wines side-by-side was most interesting. There wasn't enough time to really devote proper study, but I don't think SFJoe (our collective temporal conscience that evening) would have let us stay any longer to revisit.

I would single out the Ageno as particularly monstrous on that night.
In a good or bad way?

I would note that nothing except the Taibane (which throws ridiculous gummy worm sediment) was decanted
Query: since this was your beautiful wine of the year from an earlier bottling, how did you feel about it this go-'round?

But clearly most of the Gravner would have benefited from some decanting, amongst others. For some offerings it would have been a detriment.
I think that's a fair assessment of the difficulties of all the wines, really. Some were better a little colder, others needed to be warmer. Some accepted the food, some didn't. Some were median-range orange wines, some seemed like normal wines, others seemed like wine versions of the extreme hopping craze. Many seemed to suffer in comparison to their brethren, for reasons that aren't entirely clear (that is, if one reversed the order, suddenly everything was different...and not just the perception of structure). I don't think there's ever going to be a fully controllable setting in which to present these wines...at least, in this number.

Thanks again. Very, very much.
 
"Some of the wines Ive always felt I loved were, in this context, less impressive than expected."

Much the same impression I had during the leftcoast version of this tasting.
Best, Jim
 
Wow. Nice review, Thor, of what sounds like a truly memorable evening (and memorable next morning for other reasons). Your conclusions regarding mental fatigue seems along the lines of previous discussions we've had of trying to listen to certain musical styles when forced to multi-task. It's just too hard and too draining.

Following sage Orange Sunshine advice "Take one, then quit. Take one, that's it"
 
Great post, Thor. I will take more time to comment later -- there's exterior painting to do now -- but I must say that I agree with you that these wines are too complex, as a rule, to drink so many at once.

Unlike many, I did not have a hangover the next day. I was fine and went to work as usual. How do you say "cast-iron liver" in Slovenian?
 
My notes on the wines, in the order served:

Round 1
Casa Coste Piane 2006 "Tranquillo" Prosecco - A glass of this is handed to us as we arrive. It's all minerals and no pleasure.

Cornelissen 2007 "Munjebel 4" - First wine at the table. OMG. An exciting nose all flowers and citrus and talcum and a bevy of other things. Cloudy. Jangly texture but good tannic grip and an incredible long finish. One of my WOTN.

De Conciliis 2004 "Antece" - Mild VA, this wine is rather normal compared to the Cornelissen.

Monastero Suore Cistercensi 2007 "Coenobium" - A lingering bitterness in the finish is all I retained of this wine.

Monastero Suore Cistercensi 2007 "Coenobium Rusticum" - Much nicer than the normale. Great nose of kumquatty citrus and a whiff of wintergreen. Finish is short-ish and still there is a bitter note that bothers me.

Monastero Suore Cistercensi 2006 "Coenobium" - Like a normal sort of white wine but with extra aromatics on the finish, and a chalky sensation (like I get from some minerally champagnes).

Paolo Bea 2004 "Arboreus" - Spicier nose than any of the Coenobia. Long finish that changes several times over the course of 5 minutes. I like. (So soulful, eh?)

Massa Vecchia 2005 Bianco - Bretty nose. Intense and viscous, like a reconstituted frozen fruit juice (ty, Thor). It works well with food, though, and, as it warms up, it becomes more flowery and complex.

Ca' de Noci 2007 "Notte di Luna" - shoe polish, VA, and orangeade; with some time in the glass it gets viciously horsey

Ca' de Noci 2006 "Notte di Luna" - Butter! Full, rich, and intense. Acidity a bit buffered. Wow.

Ca' de Noci 2005 "Riserva dei Fratelli" - Methode champenoise. Strange and dull... like the still prosecco, there isn't much there. Alice wonders if it has travel shock.

La Stoppa 2004 "Ageno" - suave, composed, perhaps the first wine that tastes like more than a successful lab experiment

Castello di Lispida 2002 "Amphora" - Better than its brother, more complex. It's the only wine on the table that actually complements the uni dish. Interesting.

Castello di Lispida 2002 "Terralba" - "Typical orange wine", if there is such a thing. Dull in this company.

The Respite
La Biancara 1996 "Taibane" - Late-harvest garganega and trebbiano. Baked potato and chanterelle mushrooms, gently sweet, restful and pretty. (And Levi says he got a magnum of it for $20 !?!?)

Round 2
Kante 2006 Sauvignon - shocking nose; I mean, varietally correct and all that; eh

Damijan 2003 "Kaplja" - (no note, just an "F" rating)

Damijan 2004 "Kaplja" - better than the 2003 but still not exciting

Radikon 2003 "Jakot" - another "typical orange wine"; nice enough

Radikon 1997 Ribolla Gialla Riserva - wow, so much richer (glyceral, fragrant, even slightly sweeter) than the comparable Gravner

Radikon 2001 Ribolla Gialla - restrained

Gravner 1997 Ribolla Gialla - fatty and forceful; the nose mellows a bit with air; Jay says it improved the longer he kept it

Gravner 2001 Ribolla Gialla Amphora - rounder, more complex and not so forceful

Gravner 2000 Ribolla Gialla - OK but light

Gravner 2001 "Breg" Amphora - tremendous complexity, buffered acidity

Zidarich 2005 Vitovska - zippy acidity, pleasant

Zidarich 2005 Malvasia - spicier nose than the Vitovska, also OK

Vodopivec 2003 Vitovska - (no note, just an "F" rating)

Vodopivec 2004 Vitovska - (no note, just an "F" rating)

Vodopivec 2004 Vitovska "Solo/MM4" - more minerality than the Friuli bottlings

Clai Bijele Zemlje 2007 Malvasia "Sveti Jakov" - Thor used to have the Radikon Jakot as his median orange wine; now, it's this one.

Movia 2007 "Lunar" - eh

Hautes Terres de Comberousse 2001 "Roucaillat" - lots of face-powder smells, very aggressive acidity, a harsh glass

Vinoterro 2006 "Kisi" - grassy, high-toned, weird (...and that, folks, takes some doing at this event)

Wind Gap 2007 Pinot Gris - not as razor's-edge acidic as many wines tonight; slightly sweeter fruit than many wines tonight

Scholium Project 2006 "Rocky Hill Vineyards - San Floriano Del Collio" - the wine is truly a deep pink-orange color; the wine is good, the stories about Abe are better...

Novelty Wine... Red!
Cappellano 2005 Nebiola d'Alba - flowery, crisp, these tannins are a lot more grippy than the ones in the orange wines

Leroy 1983 Volnay - "Maison" thus, probably, from the bolus of older wine they bought up recently; completely boring
 
...while I adore a lot of these wines in isolation, in concert my affection for them dimmed, and I was surprised how indifferent I was to the qualities of all but a few bottles. It could be that the accumulated negativity is a result of the rather overpowering and aggressive nature of the wines, which were more of a chore to slog through than Id expected.

Makes sense to me. I imagine a dinner/tasting of Madiran, Nebbiolo and Petite Sirah or Port, Banyuls and Bual would have a similar effect, no matter how excellent the individual wines were.
 
and memorable next morning for other reasons
It was weird. I just had the headache. None of the other usual hangover symptoms. I wasn't even tired (though I most definitely wasn't hungry, so a planned breakfast of five tall feet of pastrami was abandoned). But the headache persisted on the train until about New Haven.

Your conclusions regarding mental fatigue seems along the lines of previous discussions we've had of trying to listen to certain musical styles when forced to multi-task. It's just too hard and too draining.
Yep.

Vinoterro 2006 "Kisi" - grassy, high-toned, weird (...and that, folks, takes some doing at this event)
Oh, yeah. Now I remember this wine.

Thor used to have the Radikon Jakot as his median orange wine; now, it's this one.
Of course, part of the fun is that no one will ever know what I'm talking about.

It seems like we diverged more the farther into the tasting we got.

I imagine a dinner/tasting of Madiran, Nebbiolo and Petite Sirah or Port, Banyuls and Bual would have a similar effect, no matter how excellent the individual wines were.
I've done huge tastings of German riesling, whereafter my teeth and gums ached for days from the acid damage, but that's a different effect. The one tasting that stands out as comparative, and I hate to make the association, was an Eric Solomon portfolio tasting a whole bunch of years ago, back when it was almost all French with only a few Spanish entries. Wine, after wine, after wine, after wine was a bludgeon of dark fruit, heavy tannin, and sludge. I cannot possibly see how anyone could separate one from another in a situation like that (putting aside whether or not it's possible to begin with). By the end of the tasting, I could barely even taste overtly sweet wines.
 
originally posted by Thor:
Also, there was an extremely draining mental aspect; teasing out the complexities and the wildly individualistic essences of orange wines is a difficult enough task to begin with, but doing it as bottles fly past, food arrives, and tablemates chatter away is a perhaps insurmountable challenge to even the most intense attempt at concentration.

I can see how this could easily be the case, especially with that number of wines. While comprehensive,
I think the situation presents a clash of conflicting desires, appreciating fine food, meeting and seeing
friends, tasting and experiencing complex, diverse and unusual wines. The ambition to do it all is understandable but pulling it off truly successfully is a long shot. I think it's advisable to limit
wine dinners to 8-10 wines. That is at least if you are serious about being able to each aspect of the event
sufficient attention.
 
The thing is, I've mostly handled it fine in other situations. I really do think there's something particularly difficult about this style of wine. Plus, I probably socialized less than usual, as I was sitting between the relatively quiet Mr. Miller and the even quieter Ms. Feiring.

BTW, I just want to note for the record that I love that Levi's picture on the Convivio site is orange. I was all set to Photoshop it into that tint, but it turns out someone already did it for me.
 
originally posted by Thor:
It seems like we diverged more the farther into the tasting we got.
I don't see it that way: neither one of us liked the Damijan wines nor the Zidarich wines, mixed results on the Vodopivecs, agreement on Wind Gap and Cappellano....

Perhaps some of the lack-of-clarity comes from the briefness of my notes (and that I omit my personal little rating system when I post here).
 
Eric Asimov
Greg Dal Piaz
Jamie Wolff
Nathan Vandergrift
SF Joe Dougherty
Sharon Bowman
Kevin McKenna

Alice Feiring
Jeff Grossman
The Unoaked Jay Miller
Thor Iverson

Scott Reiner & Erica
The Fabulous Miss Lee Campbell

Bob Cunningham
Bruce Katz
Dan Tisch
Robert Dentice
Stuart Leaf
Henry Kahn
 
Interesting that you say this:

originally posted by Thor:The claim has occasionally been made that the orange wine regimen, like oak or botrytis, so heavily marks the wines that it trumps varietal character, terroir, and even individuality. This set of wines shows that to be mostly nonsense; theres plenty of diversity evident, and the wines are as different as one would expect them to be in any other context. Grapes do show, though perhaps not with the consistency exhibited in more typical wines.

But there is only wine for which you can say this:

Kante 2006 Sauvignon Blanc (Carso) The most identifiably-varietal wine in the room, and by a wide margin, though much of that is the familiarity of sauvignon.

I think I understand your points, and it's all relative anyway, but I guess further study is required to hash out the differences among varietal character, terroir, and winemaker.

Regardless, sounds like fun.
 
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