That mean man is at it again

S

SFJoe

Joe Dougherty
The old thread was lost from Wine therapy, some day I'll recreate it here, but in the meantime, Charlie Olken's knickers are still in a twistabout Mark Ellenbogen's list at The Slanted Door.
 
Joe,

Charlie is being disrespectful and inaccurate but his point is not without merit. I don't know Mark well but in the times that I have met him, snob is not a word that came to mind. So I would enjoy hearing why he does not choose CA sparklers for his SD list. I have no doubt there are reasons.

As for Charlie's comment about lighter CA styled wines also being excluded, I might suggest that Charlie put together a comprehensive list of such items. If I were in Mark's shoes, I suspect my time is at a premium and that trying to hunt through the CA jungle is a bit more time consuming than I care to step up for.

And just so anybody reading here is clear, I love SD and the very well chosen list that Mark has put together. I revel in it every time I am there. I wish more restaurants took the time and care that goes into selecting such a list, especially as it so perfectly matches the remarkable food.

Best, Jim
 
The current sparklers on the listat SD:

bugey cerdon (gamay), domaine balivet, "mthode ancestrale", savoie, france,

nv raspail clairette de die (muscat blanc petits grains), france,

nv fouet crmant de loire ros (cabernet franc), france,

nv larmandier-bernier brut, blanc de blancs (1er cru), vertus, france,

nv tissot crmant du jura, france,

nv paul dthune brut, grand cru, ambonnay, france,

nv dthune brut ros, grand cru, ambonnay, france,

nv chidaine montlouis brut (chenin blanc), loire, france,

1996 chidaine montlouis brut, "almendra", loire, france,

nv krug brut, "grande cuve", reims, france,

nv fleury brut, "carte rouge", courteron, france,

nv jacques selosse brut, blanc de blancs (grand cru), "initial", france,
 
Of those, I don't adore the Fouet and haven't had the Raspail.

So I wouldn't cry if they were replaced by the right thing from California.

But many of the others are irreplaceable. Opened the Almendra pretty recently, it was totally fabulous.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Joe,

Charlie is being disrespectful and inaccurate but his point is not without merit.
Click to expand...
Oh, I dunno. It's really not so hard to find a glass of California wine in San Francisco these days, though fancy Napa cab is no doubt a tough sell to restaurants. I don't think California wineries will go out of business if Mark doesn't sell all their wine. And he is pouring vast quantities of L'Enfant Terrible, for instance.

If I have a problem with Mark's list, it's that he's sucking up the world's supply of Clos Roche Blanche Gamay and pouring it into tourists from Idaho.
 
Jim,

Mark pretty much only buys from organic or biodynamic producers. Are people making good organic sparkling wine in CA these days? I don't really keep up.
 
"Yet the guru at Slanted Door, a restaurant I love by the way and whose German selections are magnificent, has ten French bubblies on the list and not one from CA."

French bubblies from CA have such tight allotments that he may not have been able to source proper amounts.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
"Yet the guru at Slanted Door, a restaurant I love by the way and whose German selections are magnificent, has ten French bubblies on the list and not one from CA."

French bubblies from CA have such tight allotments that he may not have been able to source proper amounts.
Click to expand...
I don't know the reason but in this economy tight allotments are not a worry for the sparklers we're talking about.
 
I've known Charlie a long time and mean is not an adjective that comes to mind at all. Passionate, yes. Good sense of humor, check. Opinionated, you betcha. But that describes most of us here.

I don't subscribe to his opinion with regard to the list at SD, as I think a restaurant has a right to do whatever they want with their list, but you need to understand that he's been championing California wines for thirty-five years in his Connoisseur's Guide to California wine. They are his passion, so his opinion on the matter really shouldn't come as a surprise.
 
Jeebus, this is getting stupid. Let's face it, boys and girls: California winemakers, for the most part, do not make wines to accompany food. As sensible businesspersons, they make wines that will get big scores from all the you-know-whos. Is there anything mysterious about this arrangement?
 
originally posted by Brad Kane:
I've known Charlie a long time and mean is not an adjective that comes to mind at all. Passionate, yes. Good sense of humor, check. Opinionated, you betcha. But that describes most of us here.

I don't subscribe to his opinion with regard to the list at SD, as I think a restaurant has a right to do whatever they want with their list, but you need to understand that he's been championing California wines for thirty-five years in his Connoisseur's Guide to California wine. They are his passion, so his opinion on the matter really shouldn't come as a surprise.
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Brad,

As we so often encounter, your reading is its own special thing. The "mean man" of the title is Ellenbogen, who doesn't put enough CA wine on his list to satisfy Charlie or other CA wine partisans.

If Chris were here he could explain it to you.
 
originally posted by The Wine Mule:
Jeebus, this is getting stupid. Let's face it, boys and girls: California winemakers, for the most part, do not make wines to accompany food. As sensible businesspersons, they make wines that will get big scores from all the you-know-whos. Is there anything mysterious about this arrangement?
Click to expand...

In all fairness, one can make damning generalizations about all wine regions (including those represented on the list at SD). But Ellenbogen goes out of his way to find the inspired wines from certain European regions so it seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to suggest that he might try the same thing in his local region.

Just like it is also perfectly reasonable that he prefers to stick with all those European goodies!!
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Brad Kane:
I've known Charlie a long time and mean is not an adjective that comes to mind at all. Passionate, yes. Good sense of humor, check. Opinionated, you betcha. But that describes most of us here.

I don't subscribe to his opinion with regard to the list at SD, as I think a restaurant has a right to do whatever they want with their list, but you need to understand that he's been championing California wines for thirty-five years in his Connoisseur's Guide to California wine. They are his passion, so his opinion on the matter really shouldn't come as a surprise.
Click to expand...

Brad,

As we so often encounter, your reading is its own special thing. The "mean man" of the title is Ellenbogen, who doesn't put enough CA wine on his list to satisfy Charlie or other CA wine partisans.

If Chris were here he could explain it to you.
Click to expand...

Violins on tv? Never mind.
 
originally posted by Lou Kessler:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
"Yet the guru at Slanted Door, a restaurant I love by the way and whose German selections are magnificent, has ten French bubblies on the list and not one from CA."

French bubblies from CA have such tight allotments that he may not have been able to source proper amounts.
Click to expand...
I don't know the reason but in this economy tight allotments are not a worry for the sparklers we're talking about.
Click to expand...

I feel so misunderstood.
 
originally posted by The Wine Mule:
Jeebus, this is getting stupid. Let's face it, boys and girls: California winemakers, for the most part, do not make wines to accompany food. As sensible businesspersons, they make wines that will get big scores from all the you-know-whos. Is there anything mysterious about this arrangement?
Click to expand...

'Mighty broad brush there, WM.
Best, Jim
 
Joe,
Doing the math here . . .
You answered my counter-point post 4 times, Mark not at all.
I'd really like to hear what he has to say - not that your points are not well taken but, if he's around, it would be nice to know his thoughts.
I suspect that it isn't so simple . . .
Best, Jim
 
Name a great sparkler from CA that has strong acidity (real, not added), complexity, and a low dosage?

....I can't think of one...
 
originally posted by Mark Davis:
hmmm..Name a great sparkler from CA that has strong acidity (real, not added), complexity, and a low dosage?
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And that isn't just innocently froooty.

But I don't try many.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Joe,
Doing the math here . . .
You answered my counter-point post 4 times, Mark not at all.
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I haven't observed Mark as eager to take a public stand on SD controversies, but you might send him an email and see what he says.
 
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