Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Jobard En la Barre or a Lafon Clos de la Barre?
What's going on with Jobard and premox?
- Thread starter BJ
- Start date
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Now, this makes me think that we're inhabiting different universes. I'm extremely sensitive to rs in wine and I pick up none in Jobard's, not even 2003 (which were among the relatively few successful white wines of that bizarre vintage).
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
You know, reflecting wine-related it's not as obvious as with other aspects of my youth. Back when I was starting to seriously learn about wine in the late 1970s and early 1980s, the main issue was whether a wine was commercially acceptable or not; as a result the profusion of styles/methods that we now have wasn't present. It really came about only from the late 1980s on.
I did accept for a while that the guy in Romanche-Thorins was the epitome of Beaujolais because that's what everything I could find to read told me. Actually, back then, he sold a Morgon Princesse Lieven that was pretty damn good (never could warm up to the Georges Descombes, though). Like a lot of people, I started with CA wines (which were much different back then from the way that they are now) and from there moved to Bordeaux.
By the time the real change in style started (which I date to 1989), I was already writing my review and visiting so I knew immediately it was the beginning of the end there. So, in the end, because of different circumstances, I really didn't stock that much wine that I later didn't want. There was a lot of 1982 Bordeaux (not bad in the end, just not terribly interesting but for certain exceptions, but it has proved eminently tradable) and a fair amount of 1979 and 1983 Coteaux du Layon that I still have. The Coteaux du Layon didn't cost much and their problem was simply the inadequate production methods that dominated much of the region back then. They're not off, just not terribly interesting (at least last time I tasted them, which is some time ago).
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
And the 1982 was substantially superior.
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
I think most false arrests on oak in white Burgundy are really about tasting the buttery results of malolactic fermentation. It's not appealing, but in good wines it goes away.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Well, if it's the butter that's being commented on, I consider that an inherent element of much/most of Meursault's terroir. Same with the rich, oily texture.
You know, you can learn an enormous amount by visiting a few cellars. You start with a Bourgogne, and you ask where's the vineyard located? Edge of Meursault. And what treatment do you give it? No new oak and/or raised in stainless. And yeasts? Indigenous. And then as you go on through the range of Meursaults and ask similar questions, you can begin to pick out what comes from the terroir and what from the treatment. Especially if you visit more than one cellar in the village.
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
I wouldn't want to conclude that without experiencing a bunch of Meursaults where the malo was blocked. It might be more accurate to say that it's an inherent feature of Meursault's terroir that certain artifacts of the winemaking process are slower/tougher to integrate...
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
You can taste it even before malo and while the alcoholic fermentation is still going on (i.e., it shows up in October and November when I visit when I sample the wine of that year's vintage just for fun). But of course, it varies. By the time you get down to Perrires, for example, it really isn't there or if it is it's hidden by the minerality and the tension (but it is fascinating to compare Meursault-Perrires with Puligny-Perrires and the differences once one passes over to Puligny).
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Yeah, it's not from a terribly interesting part of Meursault -- rather flat, on the north side heading toward Volnay. On the map, En la Barre shows up as next to Clos de la Barre, but my recollection is the Clos de la Barre has more of an incline; vines may be older, too. Anyway, Clos de la Barre is way better than En la Barre.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
It is fascinating to see so many staunch defenders and casual amateurs of F. Jobard.
As I've stated earlier in the thread (funny, I hesitated a bit before my first, negative post; the reaction to my comments has, however, not prompted regret. What doesn't kill me only renders me resentful and misanthropic, natch) I don't like the wines. I've had them quite a few times and tasted the lineup with the winemaker (son) on two occasions.
So, those in favor: what do you like about these wines?
Knowing that a couple of Meursault producers I like are Roulot and Henri Germain.
As I've stated earlier in the thread (funny, I hesitated a bit before my first, negative post; the reaction to my comments has, however, not prompted regret. What doesn't kill me only renders me resentful and misanthropic, natch) I don't like the wines. I've had them quite a few times and tasted the lineup with the winemaker (son) on two occasions.
So, those in favor: what do you like about these wines?
Knowing that a couple of Meursault producers I like are Roulot and Henri Germain.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
I like their understated, delicate, even lacy, pure, nervy approach and their ability to age and remain fresh seemingly forever. I'm not surprised that you don't like them given what I know of your Champagne preferences -- you go more for a rich, meaty style, and I'm toward the other end. Nothing wrong with that, different people have different tastes. Instead of Roulot (also one of my favorites), I would have expected you to cite Coche-Dury and Arnaud Ente as your favorites.
Re the residual sugar, it occurred to me that you may have been referring to sucrosity, which is different from residual sugar. There have been a few recent Burgundy vintages where sucrosity showed up in the wines in general, and in Jobard, in particular. The wines are technically dry, but give an impression of sweetness, possibly due to the glycerol. I was very unnerved by it when I first encountered it, but it seems to burn off with aging.
U
Unknown
Guest
Never had the pleasure, but based on Lafon and Coche, I am not surprised.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
I had thought you were more of a fan of Coche-Dury than this would suggest. I guess I misremember.
Keith Levenberg
Keith Levenberg
I don't really see Selosse as a gateway drug to Coche-Dury. I think the Venn diagram of Krug and Coche-Dury fans has a much bigger intersection than Selosse/Coche-Dury.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
F. Jobard clearly goes with Cdric Bouchard, though.
Isn't it a little silly to judge preemptively a person's putative tastes?
Isn't it a little silly to judge preemptively a person's putative tastes?
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
It actually doesn't have anything to do with champagne or preemptive judgement. I was basing my thought that you rather fancy Coche-Dury from a dinner at SFJoe's house where I seem to recall that you fancied the Coche where others did not. Perhaps, as I said, I misremember.
I have liked bottle of Coche in the past myself. I have also liked bottles from Francois Jobard in the past. And Roulot. And many others. It isn't really about the liking.
I think that if you are straight up going to be dismissive about an estate as "soulless," "oaky," and "indifferent," then the onus is really on you to support such a damnation with some sort of cogent argument beyond that you have visited the estate.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
Oh, others liked it, tooespecially Marc Ollivier.
La preuve par Ppire...
I've only had Coche-Dury whites two times. One was that time, and another was also at SFJoe's, when we all hated the wine: it tasted like fake butter and gunpowder. I think someone used the image of popcorn smashed on a movie theater floor in Beirut.
But that was obviously a flawed bottle. So, yes, liking the other one means that I do like non-flawed Coche-Dury.
I may have been conflating you with Claude, Levi. The former was trying to divine my tastes in Meursault via my taste for Selosse.
La preuve par Ppire...
I've only had Coche-Dury whites two times. One was that time, and another was also at SFJoe's, when we all hated the wine: it tasted like fake butter and gunpowder. I think someone used the image of popcorn smashed on a movie theater floor in Beirut.
But that was obviously a flawed bottle. So, yes, liking the other one means that I do like non-flawed Coche-Dury.
I may have been conflating you with Claude, Levi. The former was trying to divine my tastes in Meursault via my taste for Selosse.