I dunno. This tasting note seemed funnier after two glasses of wine watching Family Guy

S

SteveTimko

Steve Timko
Another wine board is having Beaujolais week this week, so I pulled a couple of 2004s I figured were long overdue for drinking. Of course every week is Beaujolais week on Wine Disorder.

2004 Domaines des Braves Rgni - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Rgni (3/23/2010)
Beyond thin and insipid. It tastes diluted. Like when the producer was filling the bottle, he stopped a half glass short and filled the rest with water. Nothing offensive about it. No question it is light. Just no flavor. Like when Jesus was a teen and had his learner's permit and turned water into wine and Mary and Joseph and all the Passover guests nodded and without saying anything to each other told him it was good wine to give him encouragement. I don't think it's faded much because it doesn't show the usual signs of age. It was probably better several years ago, though. A Grape Expectations import.
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2004 Mommessin Morgon Les Charmes - France, Burgundy, Beaujolais, Morgon (3/23/2010)
Pleasant wine. Fairly simple. Tastes both French and like gamay. Not a lot of spice but good earthiness. Smooth dark cherry. Elegant and has aged well. Light and matched the roast chicken perfectly. Imported by Boisset America.
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2006 Weingut Hirsch Grner Veltliner Kamptal DAC Zbinger Heiligenstein - Austria, Niedersterreich, Kamptal (3/20/2010)
This didn't show well. May have been corked (I have zero TCA sensitivity) but it's also a screw cap. Lots of spritz the first day I opened it. Not much else. The second day it was an alcoholic mess. I think I tasted it at an Age of Riesling tasting and it was fine then, but not this one. A Terry Thiese Import. (I pulled it in honor of becoming a fan of Terry Thiese wines on Facebook).
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1998 Bosquet des Papes Chteauneuf-du-Pape - France, Rhne, Southern Rhne, Chteauneuf-du-Pape (3/19/2010)
The last one of these seemed to be fading a little bit but this one was fine. It's in a really good spot right now. Dark cherry. Nice earthiness and garrigue. No oak. Good finish. There was a little flare of alcohol on the finish, but I'm sure the bottle was too warm. Ginday Imports.
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2009 Clos Pepe Estate Ros of Pinot Noir - USA, California, Central Coast, Santa Rita Hills - Sta. Rita Hills (3/13/2010)
One of the better domestic roses that I've tried. Light and bright. It shows it's made from pinot. Like a cousin to Ameztoi Rubentis.
 
I am a perfect five for five on those Domaine des Braves wines being corked (2002, 2004, 2007 vintages) -- whatever the source of the infection is, and it's unlikely to be the cork at this point -- so I can offer no words of encouragement. Except to ask: sure yours wasn't?
 
I have zero TCA sensitivity. My most famous moment with this is a blind tasting of Burgundy at the Southern California Grape and Gripe Tasting in Long Beach once. At the end everyone rated their six wines tasted blind. Everyone pointed to one being corked, except me. I rated it third.
But it was ungodly thin. I don't think TCA alone can account for this.
 
originally posted by SteveTimko: I have zero TCA sensitivity.
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Steve, Sounds like me!

If a wine is less than expected, I can only wonder if it might be corked. I am not susceptive to TCA taint...other than recognizing a wine might be under performing.

. . . . . . Pete
 
But it was ungodly thin. I don't think TCA alone can account for this.
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Not to enrage Mr. Groundwater's passions on this issue, but when a wine tastes like nothing and I've reason to believe it should taste otherwise, TCA or one of its evil cousins is one of my first considerations. Unfortunately, my only intact bottles of this wine are from tastings that are now years in the past, so I don't really remember what it's like when it's not tainted.
 
originally posted by Thor:
But it was ungodly thin. I don't think TCA alone can account for this.
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Not to enrage Mr. Groundwater's passions on this issue, but when a wine tastes like nothing and I've reason to believe it should taste otherwise, TCA or one of its evil cousins is one of my first considerations. Unfortunately, my only intact bottles of this wine are from tastings that are now years in the past, so I don't really remember what it's like when it's not tainted.
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Yes, having a wino friend who is likewise virtually insensitive to TCA, I have been able to conduct a few trials and concluded that, though my friend lacks the ability to detect TCA as a "presence" (i.e., musty/mildewy/wet cardboard) he can detect it as an absence (fruit missing from a familiar wine, a sense of flatness). In fact, this is the phenomenon of "fruit scalping" that we associate with low level taint; it's just that, for these folks, all levels of TCA are low level.

Mark Lipton
 
Well, I guess this is where we all come out of the closet.

I too have next-to-zero TCA sensitivity, but I easily notice a difference side-by-side. Mark's presence/absence distinction is a good one.
 
I've often heard of this low to no sensitivity thing and I don't understand it. How could ones sense of smell be generally normal but not be able to detect TCA? What else is not detected? Is one then extra sensitive to other aromas?

I don't relish being capable of detecting it really, but it would seem weird if I couldn't.
 
People sense chemicals at different thresholds. I don't know if it's clustered like nontasters/tasters/supertasters or just a regular old bell curve, but the differences for things like TCA are dramatic, and if I'd stuck with the MW program I would have gotten my exact threshold tested. Steve can't smell TCA, Parker can't identify VA. Mrs. Coad (oh, she'll just love that), and apparently James Laube, can smell TCA two boroughs away and while locked in a sealed vault with a clothespin on her nose, and I have conniptions at relatively normal levels of VA (though there are odd exceptions) that most normal wine drinkers don't even notice. Oliver recoils at brett levels that are a near-requirement for shelf space at Terroir.

At our last dinner in the Piedmont, the final wine was a Franco Fiorina 1978 Barbaresco "Riserva". Of our group of seven, one was 100% sure it was corked, I was about 85% sure, a third thought it was probably corked, and the rest either offered no opinion or (loudly) expressed not only that it was not corked, but that it was rapturous. This is not an unusual result in my drinking circles.
 
I get a sense of muted fruit in corked wines. I can often guess that a wine is corked. But some times it's just closed and needs air to open.
I've never had a wine others have identified as corked seem so watery.
Ned:
We all experience wine differently. Another example is acid in riesling. If a riesling is too dry, it tastes sour to me. The 1998 Nigl Riesling Senftenberger Hochcker is too dry and is unpleasent to drink, but the 1999 has enough fruit that it tastes wonderful and elegant.
Rieslings that are slightly flabby to others are right in the zone for me.
 
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
I've often heard of this low to no sensitivity thing and I don't understand it. How could ones sense of smell be generally normal but not be able to detect TCA? What else is not detected? Is one then extra sensitive to other aromas?
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Same reason there are those who can't smell asparagus pee. Everyone has different 'sesitivities' and we must be sensitive to this.
 
Wasn't it Scott Wurcer who couldn't smell violets, and thus disagreed with nearly every single Cte-Rtie note anyone posted?
 
In addition, it seems to me that people may be 'sensitive' to TCA but not able to identify it as such. Which is why practice/training/focus helps to be able to distiguish among different sensations.

I know early on in my wine drinking I didn't know what I was looking for with TCA and in retrospect having learned what to look for it explains some of the early bottles that confused me.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:


I know early on in my wine drinking I didn't know what I was looking for with TCA and in retrospect having learned what to look for it explains some of the early bottles that confused me.
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Bingo! It came as a great revelation to me when, at age 31, I was informed at a public tasting that the musty smell I got in the wine was from cork taint. Up until then, I'd just considered it a "feature" of some of the wines I'd been drinking (I recall likening it to the smell of a barrel room, which in retrospect makes me wonder about some of those early winery visits)

Mark Lipton
 
We visited a winery in Roero a few weeks ago that had:

1) a room full of freshly-scrubbed barrels, that
2) were being continuously misted from nozzles on the walls, and
3) smelled -- as did the floor -- of a chlorine solution used in that cleaning

I wanted to say something, but I just couldn't.
 
Same reason there are those who can't smell asparagus pee. Everyone has different 'sesitivities' and we must be sensitive to this.
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I have been told that this phenomenon actually involves two separate genetic predispositions. Which is to say, not everyone can smell it, but also, not everyone can make it.

This may or may not be true.
 
originally posted by SteveTimko:
The 1998 Nigl Riesling Senftenberger Hochcker is too dry and is unpleasent to drink, but the 1999 has enough fruit that it tastes wonderful and elegant.
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It's been a while, but I'd also bet more rs.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by SteveTimko:
The 1998 Nigl Riesling Senftenberger Hochcker is too dry and is unpleasent to drink, but the 1999 has enough fruit that it tastes wonderful and elegant.
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It's been a while, but I'd also bet more rs.
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I dunno. Something. According to Bill Mayer of Age of Riesling, who suggested the 1999 over other vintages, it's the fruit.
I was certain I'd like the 1998 as well but had a chance to try it at an Lotus of Siam get together and it was just too austere. The younger Nigls are also too ausete. But fortunately my taste buds allow me to "get it" with the 1999.
 
originally posted by SteveTimko:
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by SteveTimko:
The 1998 Nigl Riesling Senftenberger Hochcker is too dry and is unpleasent to drink, but the 1999 has enough fruit that it tastes wonderful and elegant.
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It's been a while, but I'd also bet more rs.
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I dunno. Something. According to Bill Mayer of Age of Riesling, who suggested the 1999 over other vintages, it's the fruit.
I was certain I'd like the 1998 as well but had a chance to try it at an Lotus of Siam get together and it was just too austere. The younger Nigls are also too ausete. But fortunately my taste buds allow me to "get it" with the 1999.
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Again, it's been a while, but in the '98 could it be the aging botrytis?
 
originally posted by Thor:
We visited a winery in Roero a few weeks ago that had:

1) a room full of freshly-scrubbed barrels, that
2) were being continuously misted from nozzles on the walls, and
3) smelled -- as did the floor -- of a chlorine solution used in that cleaning

I wanted to say something, but I just couldn't.
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From your evident dismay, I assume these were empty barrels. Bungs out or in?
And if the barrels smelled of chlorine, I'd like to make sure I never buy any of that wine. Could you e-mail me the name of the winery, please.
Best, Jim
 
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