You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
I dunno. This tasting note seemed funnier after two glasses of wine watching Family Guy
- Thread starter SteveTimko
- Start date
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
Thor, perhaps some enterprising soul can put together "SoulDestroying2010", invite bloggers such as yourself, and between tasting sessions of over-wooded, high-alcohol wine, you can make several trips to Terroir?
I promise when I meet you at Terroir, I'll laugh with you, not at you.
I promise when I meet you at Terroir, I'll laugh with you, not at you.
Larry Stein
Larry Stein
I'm a kinder, gentler person since I met Sandi.
(I think I hear her laughing...)
(I think I hear her laughing...)
originally posted by Thor:
I snark to get over the pain of Terroir being all the way across the country, rather than down the block.
Because you don't have enough wine readily available to drink?
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Bleh. What a nasty idea.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Is it the case that there is a feature in unflawed wines that tastes enough like TCA as to make the difference indistinguishable?
There are certainly famous and obscure wineries with contamination issues somewhere in the process and all their wines are tainted with TCA or a chemical cousin.
Hard to call it a feature, even if you were as bold as Micrsoft in the old gag.
As you yourself have noted, older Chenin can easily be mistakenly associated with TCA taint because of that bergamot-like flavor lurking within.
Mark Lipton
For me, there's definitely a Loire terroir characteristic that occasionally gives a false positive for TCA. Embarrassing for someone who loves Chenin as much as I do, and who's proud of being a Chambers St. alumnus. Not just Chenin- there was a '02 Cazin Romorantin that I was on the fence about and allowed the other 3 pros at the table to convince me was corked. After returning the bottle to CSW the next day and tasting w/ David- it was positively _singing_.
Cement tanks can cloud the issue sometimes for me, too. Some traditional northern Italian producers in particular.
That I want to drink? No, not really.Because you don't have enough wine readily available to drink?
I haven't bought wine since the first week of January. It's getting ugly down there. I pulled a Cedarville 1990 Zinfandel, for Ood's sake.
originally posted by Thor:
On TCA-alikes, I once got in an argument with the otherwise flawless (or maybe beyond perfection) Laurence Viron about a Cte-Rtie that I felt was corked, but she insisted was just showing its inherent character. Since she and her then husband had opened their entire restaurant and assembled the entire cheese chariot for just us and our three-hour meal, I really couldn't bring myself to complain too much, so we drank the bottle anyway. If she was right -- which I don't think she was -- then there's definitely something that does a pretty good impression.
I have been in a number of situations (about 5?) where "corked" was declared but not agreed upon by everyone there. So, to try and determine it, another bottle was opened. In every case the second bottle settled it. The first bottle was corked. The difference was easily discernible. I suppose it could happen but I haven't ever had the second be corked too. That's my bit of anecdotal experience.
Based on that, I'd say in that situation, order a second bottle. If you are right, it will be undeniable and the first bottle should hopefully be withdrawn. There is a risk it won't be conclusive and you will then have to pay for both. Then of course, "face" may come into it, depending on how vigorously the host assured the soundness of the bottle. Embarrassing (vs arguing with) the host may not be worth being right.
Having suggested it here, I'm now promising myself to do the same should I find myself in that situation.
I've been lucky so far in that a second bottle was always voluntarily opened.
originally posted by Thor:
In some cases, there's no opening a second bottle. It's just the way it is. I agree with you, but sometimes, it's not possible.
Yes of course. One reason I verbalized the suggestion was in part to get over my own resistance (cheapness) to ordering the second bottle (when not offered, possibly due to THEIR resistance (cheapness)). Sort of a courage of my convictions(palate) thing.
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Bleh. What a nasty idea.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Is it the case that there is a feature in unflawed wines that tastes enough like TCA as to make the difference indistinguishable?
There are certainly famous and obscure wineries with contamination issues somewhere in the process and all their wines are tainted with TCA or a chemical cousin.
Hard to call it a feature, even if you were as bold as Micrsoft in the old gag.
As you yourself have noted, older Chenin can easily be mistakenly associated with TCA taint because of that bergamot-like flavor lurking within.
Mark Lipton
I'd say it's more the lanolin thing than bergamot. Bergamot is the citrus in earl grey tea.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Brad Kane:
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Bleh. What a nasty idea.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Is it the case that there is a feature in unflawed wines that tastes enough like TCA as to make the difference indistinguishable?
There are certainly famous and obscure wineries with contamination issues somewhere in the process and all their wines are tainted with TCA or a chemical cousin.
Hard to call it a feature, even if you were as bold as Micrsoft in the old gag.
As you yourself have noted, older Chenin can easily be mistakenly associated with TCA taint because of that bergamot-like flavor lurking within.
Mark Lipton
I'd say it's more the lanolin thing than bergamot. Bergamot is the citrus in earl grey tea.
Hmmm, didn't know older Chenin could taste like older Chablis.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
originally posted by Thor:
On TCA-alikes, I once got in an argument with the otherwise flawless (or maybe beyond perfection) Laurence Viron about a Cte-Rtie that I felt was corked, but she insisted was just showing its inherent character. Since she and her then husband had opened their entire restaurant and assembled the entire cheese chariot for just us and our three-hour meal, I really couldn't bring myself to complain too much, so we drank the bottle anyway. If she was right -- which I don't think she was -- then there's definitely something that does a pretty good impression.
I have been in a number of situations (about 5?) where "corked" was declared but not agreed upon by everyone there. So, to try and determine it, another bottle was opened. In every case the second bottle settled it. The first bottle was corked. The difference was easily discernible. I suppose it could happen but I haven't ever had the second be corked too. That's my bit of anecdotal experience.
Based on that, I'd say in that situation, order a second bottle. If you are right, it will be undeniable and the first bottle should hopefully be withdrawn. There is a risk it won't be conclusive and you will then have to pay for both. Then of course, "face" may come into it, depending on how vigorously the host assured the soundness of the bottle. Embarrassing (vs arguing with) the host may not be worth being right.
Having suggested it here, I'm now promising myself to do the same should I find myself in that situation.
I've been lucky so far in that a second bottle was always voluntarily opened.
Although I've had some pretty risible trouble in restaurants returning unopened wine when it wasn't the vintage I'd asked for or once even when the menu listed a Vacqueyras and they brought a CdR, I've never had any trouble returning I bottle I thought was corked. I just ask the sommelier politely to sniff the wine because I think it's corked. If they have disagreed, they've never said anything and always politely get me a second bottle.
SteveTimko
Steve Timko
originally posted by Thor:
That I want to drink? No, not really.Because you don't have enough wine readily available to drink?
I haven't bought wine since the first week of January. It's getting ugly down there. I pulled a Cedarville 1990 Zinfandel, for Ood's sake.
I don't think Jonathan and Susan planted their vineyard until the mid 1990s. Were they making wine with purchased fruit before then?
I like Cedarville.
originally posted by Thor: I haven't bought wine since the first week of January. It's getting ugly down there..
Good luck!
I hope you find something decent to drink today.
Would have loved to join but my mother is in town and things non-wine related are on the agenda.
Joel Stewart
Joel Stewart
originally posted by SteveTimko:
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Is it possible that a person can identify the smell of actual moldy newspaper, wet dog, etc., but not identify such in a wine?
A grape I don't get is cabernet sauvignon and it often smells like moldy newspaper to me, especially if it's aged. When I describe this smell in a cab I don't like others will try to rationalize it by saying it's corked when three or four other wine geeks sensitive to TCA at the time I tasted it did not piok up on it being corked.
Well, the reason I ask is that I know what moldy newsprint and wet dogs smell like, having had at least a few experiences with both. However, with the exception of one or two bottles, I have never gotten these smells from any of the however many bottles I have opened over the years....which means I have either had extraordinary luck...or the so-called identifier TCA smells in wine are actually different compounds than what they are claimed to resemble....and may just be compounds I am way less sensitive to (which seems hard to believe, but it's all I can come up with at the moment).
originally posted by Brad Kane:
I'd say it's more the lanolin thing than bergamot. Bergamot is the citrus in earl grey tea.
Wow, Brad, I feel that I've now come of age on this bored: I get to proclaim that you are WRONG. I'll try not to get too chem-geeky about this, but one of the principal odorants in oil of bergamot is a terpene that has a gem-dimethyl moiety. I find that molecules of this class (such as patchouli alcohol) often fall into the mildew/TCA/chlorinated things camp for me. I'll accept that bergamot oil reminds you of citrus -- why not, after all, since it's isolated from a citrus fruit? -- but I can guarantee you that citrus is the furthest thing from my mind when smelling bergamot; moreover, lanolin smells nothing like TCA to me.
Thanks for sharing,
Mark Lipton
Steve, wanted to update: I opened the 2000 Cedarville last night, and it's estate fruit according to the back label. It was quite good, had accomplished a fair amount of oak integration, and I wouldn't say it was fully mature yet.I don't think Jonathan and Susan planted their vineyard until the mid 1990s. Were they making wine with purchased fruit before then?
SteveTimko
Steve Timko
Glad you enjoyed it.