Who assumes the risk of corked bottles?

My views differ from many of all of yours on many points, but I just don't have the time to set you all straight!

Rats!
 
originally posted by VLM:
Motherfuckers

I say kill em all.

Except Joe.
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Whew. Maybe you could give me a letter that I could show them when they come to stand me against the wall?
 
One addendum and withdrawal. The story in the NY Times about the Justice investigation of GS makes clear that it is with regard to the same transactions, so the Post story this morning was just bad reporting. This does show that the SEC has as much confidence in its version of events as Claude does. If it is based on the evidence that has been reported, I don't.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by VLM:
Motherfuckers

I say kill em all.

Except Joe.
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Whew. Maybe you could give me a letter that I could show them when they come to stand me against the wall?
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Your monkey tattoo should do the trick.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Jonathan, I'm sorry, but you've really diminished my respect for you by this thread and your ridiculous arguments.
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Claude, my respect for you has diminished for letting this diminish your respect for Jonathan.

If Levi and I can be civil, surely the rest of you can pull it off.
 
originally posted by VLM:
Claude, my respect for you has diminished for letting this diminish your respect for Jonathan.
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Nathan, your diminished respect for Claude has boosted my respect for Jonathan.
 
originally posted by nigel groundwater:

Because 'ordinary' TCA might have been there before the bottle was sealed.

However if any radioactively-tagged TCA was detected in the wine it would have had to penetrate the cork from the top where it was placed.

They also looked at the cork itself and looked at where the marker had reached. The radioactive tagging allowed them to differentiate from any potential TCA naturally present.
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If there's a practical test for TCA presence, seems the investigators could test corks prior to application of TCA and eliminate those already infected. Perhaps there isn't a practical test for TCA and tagging is the only way they can keep track of the taint they apply themselves. Or else what am I not taking into account?

I guess it doesn't matter much anyway, but tagging seems a bit heavy-handed, unless its the only way.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I think that TCA becomes more apparent with bottle age. This is purely something I've come to think as a result of experience, and I don't recall ever having read it anywhere. I also believe that TCA becomes more apparent with aeration. But back to the original point, you might store a wine for 20 years. You open it. No question, it's definitely corked. Who do you return it to? The shop might not even be around. You may have moved across the country. The winery may be gone, even.

The same bottle opened 2 hours after purchase in an alternate reality: you don't notice it's corked until the last sips. There is hardly any wine left in the bottle.

In either scenario, the wine probably isn't returned.

I have a large amount of trouble returning corked bottles to distributors. It is a major pain in the keister.

Drinking corked wine makes me somewhat sick to my stomach. I feel ill. It is kind if amazing people don't notice TCA, when you think about it.
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You are obviously very sensitive to TCA. Lisa is like that, she gets nauseated at the merest whiff of the stuff. I'm more middling-sensitiveI can detect it, but it doesn't really hit me so viscerally. .sasha never thinks anything is corked. On every wine board in the world there's always one or two people who insist that after thirty years and tens of thousands of bottles they've never once had a corked wine, so the problem is obviously all in peoples' heads. I'm utterly convinced that one's reaction to TCA is simply a matter of very personal genetic makeup, much like, say, that percentage of people to whom cilantro tastes like laundry detergent (me) versus those to whom it tastes like minty-green parsley.
 
I would like to thank Kay for augmented respect and Nathan for undiminished respect (which may not mean much in his case). Taken aback as I was by Claude's response, I still respect him. I share with him a lack of respect for me. I would think I'm disgraceful were I not Chris Coad's sockpuppet and unable to think at all.
 
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I think that TCA becomes more apparent with bottle age.
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I once asked Francois Audouze, well known for consuming old wines, about corked bottles, he responded that he never encounters very old corked wines. I can't remember if he had an theory or explanation as to why that was. I was astonished but had to accept it.

I think you're right, but it may be mainly true about bottles from the past 20 -30 years or so. However while I've only ever opened several dozen bottles that were 35+ years old, none was corked. So I don't know whether to attribute that to luck, older corks being better or TCA increasing for some years but then eventually dissipating, which might go to explaining Mr. Audouzes experience.

The nature (no pun intended) of the product is really ill suited to normal methods of product warranty.
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Although the rate is markedly lower for very old wines, I've had plenty of TCA disasters with them, none more tragic than 1945 Ch. Latour, a wine that when it's on is as great as anything else I've ever drunk.

Just two weeks ago, a 1953 Steinberger TBA.
 
Claude, with all due respect, while it is not as rude as an epiteth, to say that something has diminished one's respect for someone is so hurtful that I don't think it should be said.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by nigel groundwater:

Because 'ordinary' TCA might have been there before the bottle was sealed.

However if any radioactively-tagged TCA was detected in the wine it would have had to penetrate the cork from the top where it was placed.

They also looked at the cork itself and looked at where the marker had reached. The radioactive tagging allowed them to differentiate from any potential TCA naturally present.
Click to expand...

If there's a practical test for TCA presence, seems the investigators could test corks prior to application of TCA and eliminate those already infected. Perhaps there isn't a practical test for TCA and tagging is the only way they can keep track of the taint they apply themselves. Or else what am I not taking into account?

I guess it doesn't matter much anyway, but tagging seems a bit heavy-handed, unless its the only way.
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It was the most practical and certain way. What you are suggesting would have involved multiple double testing of corks and wine without the certain differentiation that the tagging afforded.

In addition to which they could use normal bottles of wine rather than those they would have had to choose and test corks and wine for before closing them thereby opening the possibility of cross contaminations and cork insertion issues etc etc.
 
originally posted by Chris Coad:
people to whom cilantro tastes like laundry detergent (me) versus those to whom it tastes like minty-green parsley.
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You know, it tastes like soap to me but I like it anyway.

So much for your dichotomous, Manichean world view!
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Chris Coad:
people to whom cilantro tastes like laundry detergent (me) versus those to whom it tastes like minty-green parsley.
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You know, it tastes like soap to me but I like it anyway.

So much for your dichotomous, Manichean world view!
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Your petulant insistence on couching things in shades of gray has considerably diminished my respect for Brad Kane.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Ned Hoey:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I think that TCA becomes more apparent with bottle age.
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I once asked Francois Audouze, well known for consuming old wines, about corked bottles, he responded that he never encounters very old corked wines. I can't remember if he had an theory or explanation as to why that was.
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I have a theory on that.
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I have more than a theory. A friend has drunk wine in the presence of M. Audouze and reports that he was waxing ecstatic about a hideously corked bottle of wine.

QED
Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Chris Coad:
Your petulant insistence on couching things in shades of gray has considerably diminished my respect for Brad Kane.
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Chris, your diminished respect for Brad Kane has elevated my respect for cilantro.
 
originally posted by nigel groundwater:

It was the most practical and certain way. What you are suggesting would have involved multiple double testing of corks and wine without the certain differentiation that the tagging afforded.

In addition to which they could use normal bottles of wine rather than those they would have had to choose and test corks and wine for before closing them thereby opening the possibility of cross contaminations and cork insertion issues etc etc.
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Okay, I see. Thanks.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Claude, with all due respect, while it is not as rude as an epiteth, to say that something has diminished one's respect for someone is so hurtful that I don't think it should be said.
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Epitaphs are very hurtful but I respect anyone who can right them aloud, even if there roodness is undiminshed.
Bset, Jim
 
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