How come nobody's said a word about the World Cup?

Congrats to Spain, the better team won. But I have to confess that I was mostly rooting for the octopus. Now we are free to continue wondering if there's any substance to homeopathy or biodynamics.
 
originally posted by Cory Cartwright:
Big congratulations to Diego Forlan on being chosen most outstanding player.
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He was fantastic all tournament.

Ugh. What a shit show that was. Glad to see spain win, they've been playing beautiful football. I don't know what sport that was this afternoon. It'll be a while before Robben gets a good nights sleep.
 
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
I am not that familiar with FIBA but unless I misread the Wikipedia article (or heaven forbid there is an error) Brazil and Argentina both won the FIBA and Brazil won in 59 when they were reigning FIFA champs.
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Sorry for the lack of precision on my part - I meant that no country had won the world basketball championship in the open era, i.e. with pro players and with the USA represented by a team of NBA players and not just collegians or 'industrial league', AAU players (those fabled Jamaco Saints and Phillips Oilers...), and thus a 'real' world championship.
 
originally posted by Brian C:

Ugh. What a shit show that was. Glad to see spain win, they've been playing beautiful football. I don't know what sport that was this afternoon. It'll be a while before Robben gets a good nights sleep.
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I'm not sure I would agree that Spain have been playing beautiful football all tournament, though they were the better side today. 8 goals in 7 games seems a bit paltry, and while their possession statistics surely indicate "dominance," I think the tiki-taka style isn't as positive as many pundits want to believe. I think a side playing beautiful football would score earlier in games as well.
 
originally posted by Saul Mutchnick:
I think the tiki-taka style isn't as positive as many pundits want to believe. I think a side playing beautiful football would score earlier in games as well.
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Spain won this tournament with a hand tied behind its back - it was severely undermanned as obviously Torres was not in game shape after his long injury. Did you see the 2008 European Championships? The Torres-Villa duo was what added dynamite to Spain's ball possession game. Without that duo it was a much diminished side that won the World Cup. I think it makes the success all the more remarkable. Also, you're underestimating the merit of receiving two paltry goals while also being the team that's committed the fewest fouls in the tournament, has had the fewest yellow cards and has been fouled the most times by the opposition...
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
they win the trophy as most boring side in the tourney.
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Thanks for expressing so perfectly why I believe soccer will never be truly understood in the US.

Over here, we consider baseball pretty boring.
 
I don't mean to take anything away from this Spanish side--they were clearly dominant throughout the tournament and played against congested midfields the entire time (with perhaps the exception of the Chile game). I also think the success (given the injury to Torres) is remarkable and a tribute to the skill and tenacity of the players.

My complaint is with the glorification of style of play which focuses on making the high percentage pass (rather than the positive or creative one) with the hopes that the defense will make a mistake. I think that while requiring a good deal of skill and talent to pull off--you do have posses consistently excellent touch, the nature of the game is more of siege than a back and forth contest. I think the difference between this team and the Euro winning side was that the combination of Villa and Torres: a) create more defensive lapses and b) are independently creative and beautiful.
 
originally posted by Saul Mutchnick:

My complaint is with the glorification of style of play which focuses on making the high percentage pass (rather than the positive or creative one) with the hopes that the defense will make a mistake.
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That's not what Spain does. The idea is to keep ball possession until a change of pace (or indeed a defensive mistake dut to the imbalance the passing game attempts to create) creates an opening, and that's when a deep cutting pass can be made to an open man. The Spanish goal was a perfect example of that approach coming to fruition. Xavi, Iniesta and Cesc Fbregas may be the three most creative passers in the game today - so I believe your understanding of what makes Spain click is basically wrong.
 
originally posted by VS:

That's not what Spain does. The idea is to keep ball possession until a change of pace (or indeed a defensive mistake dut to the imbalance the passing game attempts to create) creates an opening, and that's when a deep cutting pass can be made to an open man. The Spanish goal was a perfect example of that approach coming to fruition. Xavi, Iniesta and Cesc Fbregas may be the three most creative passers in the game today - so I believe your understanding of what makes Spain click is basically wrong.
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Victor -- watching replays of the goal, I see your first sentence. I don't see your last sentence as applied to that goal (i.e., the special creativity). Can you explain?
 
The Spanish maneuver, with Torres' pass, unbalances the Dutch defense, and the last, pinpoint pass to the open space in the penalty area, is by Fbregas to Iniesta. I'm not saying this was the greatest pass of the game (the best ones were by Iniesta and Xavi), but that the whole, quick unbalancing maneuver is typical of what Spain tries to do after working the ball patiently around with short touches.
 
originally posted by VS:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
they win the trophy as most boring side in the tourney.
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Thanks for expressing so perfectly why I believe soccer will never be truly understood in the US.

Over here, we consider baseball pretty boring.
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It's all whatever you grew up with. (Note: I actually find baseball pretty boring as well, preferring the NFL for my sports fix.)
 
originally posted by VS:
The Spanish maneuver, with Torres' pass, unbalances the Dutch defense, and the last, pinpoint pass to the open space in the penalty area, is by Fbregas to Iniesta. I'm not saying this was the greatest pass of the game (the best ones were by Iniesta and Xavi), but that the whole, quick unbalancing maneuver is typical of what Spain tries to do after working the ball patiently around with short touches.
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The way I saw it is that Spain seemed to lack a bit of a cutting edge until Fabregas was introduced. His more direct play changed the tone and there was only one winner after that. I think that is also what an fit Torres adds to the side, a bit of directness in the face of Dutch robustness.

Congratulations Victor, a victory well deserved. Despite any quibbles that I might have, surely, a side composed of such talented footballers deserved to win. As I said earlier, I think Xavi is a once in a generation type talent. Mesmerizing.

I didn't find the Dutch dirty, just physical, and not really overly so. They never looked a balanced or convincing side to me. As Victor said, without spectacular and/or luck goals there was no way the Dutch looked likely to win. Robben was a constant menace, for sure. Three cheers for Gio as well. A proud end to an up and down career.

Also kudos to Forlan who is too often associated with his "failure" at ManU. Think Sir Alex would like to take that one back?
 
Diego this season won the UEFA Europa League with Atltico Madrid, scoring the deciding goals in the semis against Liverpool and in the final against Fulham, so I have an inkling that Sir Alex has been fully aware of his gaffe for a while now...

Nathan, if this isn't violence...
 
originally posted by VS:
Diego this season won the UEFA Europa League with Atltico Madrid, scoring the deciding goals in the semis against Liverpool and in the final against Fulham, so I have an inkling that Sir Alex has been fully aware of his gaffe for a while now...

Nathan, if this isn't violence...
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I agree the de Jong incident was reckless, but the ball was there to be won and I don't think it was malicious or cynical (your clip shows the end when it was too late for anyone to pull out and the flight of the ball meant they weren't looking at one another, it happens all the time in competitive matches). No EPL ref would ever show red for that, but many others might. He could have been sent off, but then so could Puyol for a much more unsporting foul. What a different match it would have been if Robben had gone to ground as easily as Iniesta. I'm glad neither de Jong nor Puyol were sent off and although I'm a bit bummed by Iniesta going down so easily (because I am such a huge fan of his and it mildly tainted the evening), justice prevailed and the right team won.

Thing about Forlan is why didn't he do better in the EPL? Did he need to move to a league where the pace is slower and the play less robust, or was it just plain bad luck or growing into himself. I can't think of another example of a player having such extravagantly different results in two top leagues.
 
The EPL is the world's most overrated league. Including its refs. And yes, the De Jong foul was, by a 99% vote of soccer commentators in Europe (England included), a direct red card.
 
originally posted by VS:
The EPL is the world's most overrated league. Including its refs. And yes, the De Jong foul was, by a 99% vote of soccer commentators in Europe (England included), a direct red card.
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Sure, the Spanish like to decry the EPL as overrated just as other people find the flat track bullydom of La Liga a bit trifling. Like wine, there are no perfect leagues, only perfect matches.

I'm not sure where you came up with 99%, but 99% of the people that I know that played soccer at a competitive level think that de Jong had a right to go for that ball. I'm glad Alonso didn't get hurt and I'm glad de Jong didn't see red. The spirit of the game would not have been served.

So Victor, should Robben have gone down?
 
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