TN: A Bunch of Quick Notes

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Not so much.Stress in French is dependent on a word's placement in a sentence.
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The separation of aligot into two words creates a near spondee out of the first two syllables, with the "li" being only slightly less stressed, despite the dictionary marking "go" as the stressed syllable. I don't think the single word in any sentence could produce that stress pattern.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
The separation of aligot into two words creates a near spondee out of the first two syllables...
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It doesn't.

Say these two sentences aloud:

C'est un bon aligot.
Il est bon ligoter.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
The separation of aligot into two words creates a near spondee out of the first two syllables...
Click to expand...

It doesn't.

Say these two sentences aloud:

C'est un bon aligot.
Il est bon ligoter.
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Sorry, although both lines could be iambic, I would pronounce the first three syllables of the first sentence as an anapest, leaving the rest of the line as iambic. I would pronounce the second as an iamb with an irregular slight stress on the .
 
I can't help you, then. I think since you're not a native or frequent speaker, you're letting its written form intrude, for you.

Phrase 1: anapest>iambic
Phrase 2: amphimacer>iambic
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
I can't help you, then. I think since you're not a native or frequent speaker, you're letting its written form intrude, for you.

Phrase 1: anapest>iambic
Phrase 2: amphimacer>iambic
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It's not the written form that's the issue since writing produces only syllables and has nothing to do with scansion. I'm not sure why you want to scan the second line as an amphimacer since it does nothing much to the argument, although I admit that that trisyllable is more common in French than English. The real question remains whether li is an unproblematic iamb. Although you speak probably ten times more frequently than I do and with a far superior accent, I still think if you listen carefully, as in the case of all one syllable words, you'll hear greater stress.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
It's not the written form that's the issue since writing produces only syllables and has nothing to do with scansion.
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No, but I think as someone who isn't more "in" the language, you could be skewed by its written form. You might see and interpret a difference where none is, just as sometimes we feel weird about homophones in English.

I'm not sure why you want to scan the second line as an amphimacer since it does nothing much to the argument
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You've lost me, utterly. I scan it to denote the difference between the two phrases, which is only in the start, since you can't create identical phrases within the parameters of standard syntax.

The real question remains whether li is an unproblematic iamb.
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It ain't. Have no other way to persuade or cajole than to say ask a man in the street.
 
originally posted by VLM:


So you guys got jealous of the computer geekfest and needed a geekfest of your own.
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Scanning is just going di DA or DA di or DA di di or di di DA or in Sharon's unEnglish mode, DA di DA and then labelling those things with fancy words. If you can sing or tap your feet, you can do it.

Sharon, I'm confused. I also think li is a problematic iamb. But the first two syllables of aligoter are an unproblematic iamb. If you are agreeing with me, I don't know what the larger dispute is. Or perhaps one of us got lost in our negative.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:

This is the Tirage de Printemps, traditionally my favorite aligote from them. IIRC (I'm sure someone will correct me) A Ligoter is a pun based on how they tie the grape vines. My pour at this tasting was from a fresh bottle that was still too cold and hadn't opened up at all. But I had already bought one the previous day so I'll get to try it under better circumstances.
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It's very nice indeed today. Smooth and rich with the flavor profile tilting towards pear. Needed air and to warm up from cellar temperature.
 
Double pun, or almost. ligoter = to be tied... or 'fit to be tied', stretching it a little.
 
originally posted by VS:
Double pun, or almost. ligoter = to be tied... or 'fit to be tied', stretching it a little.
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I took the "fit to be tied" translation as a joke when Sharon said it. Surely this is like translating "old stick in the mud" as "vieux baton dans la boue" and "fit to be tied" would be furibard or furibond. Is the idiom really the same in French?
 
It's a play on " lier" (ligoter and lier both mean "to tie up"), which is usually used for someone who's insane, not necessarily with anger. Fou lier.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
It's a play on " lier" (ligoter and lier both mean "to tie up"), which is usually used for someone who's insane, not necessarily with anger. Fou lier.
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OK, but even knowing fou lier, I didn't get this. Too many associations. I just assumed you were playing a game like one I play with a French colleague of mine of translating English and French idioms directly, thus referring to someone as viande morte or saying my bowl is filled with that.
 
I don't so much like splitting hairs in four, as they say in French. But whatever. I pursue:

Not so. There are no extraneous associations with " ligoter." It's as though there were an American wine called "A Bolt Loose." You might think: hm, similar to some other expression? (Because, lest you persnick, you can also say in French of someone that s/he is " lier"without the "fou"/"folle"to mean that that person is nuts.)

I am not familiar with "my bowl is filled with that."
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
I don't so much like splitting hairs in four, as they say in French. But whatever. I pursue:

Not so. There are no extraneous associations with " ligoter." It's as though there were an American wine called "A Bolt Loose." You might think: hm, similar to some other expression? (Because, lest you persnick, you can also say in French of someone that s/he is " lier"without the "fou"/"folle"to mean that that person is nuts.)

I am not familiar with "my bowl is filled with that."
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I'm not sure what the response means. I never argued against a pun. I just said I don't think ligoter is fit to be tied. As to the association, all I said was I didn't get it.

Mais j'en ai raz le bol de couper ces cheveux en quatre. Same as j'en ai plein le dos...
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
j'en ai raz le bol
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Ras le bol.

Re: " ligoter," your literalism would make Nabokov proud.

I'm sorry you fail to understand each of my posts. I'll stop them, now.
 
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