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- Thread starter Thor
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Yeah, what's up with the bourbon-barriqued ales? Utter crap, as far as I'm concerned...but maybe I shouldn't mince words, as I'm well-known to do. Hell-spawned abominations? Serial-killer beers? Fermented Hummer-squashed kitten placenta? What's the appropriate level of literary opprobrium? Because they really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really suck. Not to mince words...as I'm well-known to do.
The Long Trail IPA, which I'm drinking to evacuate the VT fridge before closing up shop for the pre-snow winter, has become a grossly over-hopped monstrosity. Alas for an otherwise solid brewery.
I do like rauchbier, though, as Seth can attest.
The Long Trail IPA, which I'm drinking to evacuate the VT fridge before closing up shop for the pre-snow winter, has become a grossly over-hopped monstrosity. Alas for an otherwise solid brewery.
I do like rauchbier, though, as Seth can attest.
Eden Mylunsch
Eden Mylunsch
Yeah, it's a pretty catchy tune. Rupert Holmes later went on to write Broadway musicals like The Mystery of Edwin Drood but by far his greatest musical accomplishment (and a song even catchier than "The Pia Colada Song") was a song called Timothy that was recorded by an obscure band from Pennsylvania called The Bouys. The record was beautifully arranged and included some cool violin and horn parts, but what made it a big hit was the fact that it was generally assumed to be about cannibalism. Situational cannibalism to be sure, but it was very much in the spirit of Alive , only with coal miners dealing with the moral dilemma instead of an Uruguayan rugby squad (who presumable had fewer compunctions, seeing as how they wrote about it, whereas the Buoys' coal miner-narrator claimed amnesia).
-Eden (Timothy is worth the 99 download if you don't already have it)
U
Unknown
Guest
I could do without the bourbon barrel stuff. Im quite sure there are one or two drinkable beers made this way but Im not willing to sacrifice any coin or my taste buds to find them.
Jolly Pumpkin ages all their beer in oak for some length of time. These are tart, slightly funky brews that mostly benefit from it -- not quite gueuze but nice drinking for the price (and local, for me). The big 1200 liter French oak barrel in the foreground is where all the Leelanau Brewing products get aged.
Jolly Pumpkin ages all their beer in oak for some length of time. These are tart, slightly funky brews that mostly benefit from it -- not quite gueuze but nice drinking for the price (and local, for me). The big 1200 liter French oak barrel in the foreground is where all the Leelanau Brewing products get aged.
evan hansen
Evan Hansen
The barrels at Rodenbach are quite literally 15+ feet tall. Absolutely huge. Unfortunately, they pasteurize and filter these days. Sour red ale fans should check out Panil bariquee from Italy. IMO, it's the most authentic Belgian red ale available, oddly enough.
My thanks as well.
I've got a bottle of Panil, actually- I went on a bit of a buying binge of the type.
My Spidey Sense has been tingling on Jolly Pumpkin, but every time I was in front of it in the store I glossed over it as possibly in league with Pyramid Apricot and Magic Hat #9.
I've got a bottle of Panil, actually- I went on a bit of a buying binge of the type.
My Spidey Sense has been tingling on Jolly Pumpkin, but every time I was in front of it in the store I glossed over it as possibly in league with Pyramid Apricot and Magic Hat #9.
evan hansen
Evan Hansen
Todd and I are both from Detroit and thus pretty familiar with Jolly Pumpkin, but in my opinion -- and I suspect he'd agree -- there are only a small handful of regional US breweries that can even compare to JP. It's "farmhouse" beer in every way, except that it's not actually a farm. You can feel the subtle temperature variations in the brewery from the middle of the facility to the outer walls, so there can be bottle variation simply from the temperature differences of where things are kept. He's got his own local microbes working on his beers, which make them uniquely Michigan.
A lot of folks criticize the name of the brewery, which is simply a reference to pirates and happy people, because the pumpkin implies obvious connections to grotesque spiced beers. But they're just straight-up, Belgian-inspired ales with lots of natural funk. I highly recommend the low-abv Bam Biere as a "session" brew and ~8%-ish Oro de Calabaza as a food beer.
A lot of folks criticize the name of the brewery, which is simply a reference to pirates and happy people, because the pumpkin implies obvious connections to grotesque spiced beers. But they're just straight-up, Belgian-inspired ales with lots of natural funk. I highly recommend the low-abv Bam Biere as a "session" brew and ~8%-ish Oro de Calabaza as a food beer.
Another Jolly Pumpkin fan here. They do Belgian farmhouse so well I actually feel sort of funny about drinking them - the taste of Flanders - from Michigan! Imagine what people here would say about wine coming out of California that tasted just like Bordeaux!
The only brew of theirs that I'd skip is the one with the cat on the label. And Bam Noire is, in my opinion, even better than the regular Bam.
And on the hops vs. malt thing - I haven't found many American brews that really work well with the malt. For the most part, I find them to be syrupy monsters, especially compared to the understated finesse of English beers. I'd welcome suggestions for American beers that showcase their malts as well as, for instance, Wychwood or Ivanhoe.
The only brew of theirs that I'd skip is the one with the cat on the label. And Bam Noire is, in my opinion, even better than the regular Bam.
And on the hops vs. malt thing - I haven't found many American brews that really work well with the malt. For the most part, I find them to be syrupy monsters, especially compared to the understated finesse of English beers. I'd welcome suggestions for American beers that showcase their malts as well as, for instance, Wychwood or Ivanhoe.
Blurry line. My understanding is that in Flanders it actually is (or was originally) terroir in the sense of indigenous yeasts. But once you isolate that blend of yeasts (and malts, and hops) and bring it over to Michigan, you can get something in Michigan that tastes just like a Belgian saison, in a way that just isn't possible with wine.
Maybe what I'm really saying is that it bugs me that beer doesn't seem to have terroir.
U
Unknown
Guest
Im not fond of using terrior to describe a beers sense of place but the truly artisanal products transcend mere recipes. Apologies for the self promotion but I think Jolly Pumpkins philosophy is pretty well summed up here.
I agree there should be some term we can use to understand beer beyond its simple mixture of ingredients. I mean, how can Mahrs make a 3% ABV lager full of malt flavor? This is not something that can be reproduced in any kitchen.
I agree there should be some term we can use to understand beer beyond its simple mixture of ingredients. I mean, how can Mahrs make a 3% ABV lager full of malt flavor? This is not something that can be reproduced in any kitchen.
Same thing with cooking. There is also talent involved. You can use 'recipes' from Thomas Keller and Mario Batali all you like, but most home chefs will not be able to come close.
I'm guessing variation in equipment is also important (definitely for cooking and perhaps also for beer?). Perhaps that is your terroir!
U
Unknown
Guest
I dont want to get into hair-splitting but I believe its more than that. I think of it in the frame of some charcuterie and cheese and other foods preserved through fermentation. There are epicenters of artisanal production where knowledge and the local flora have been developed for centuries. I think this is what twlim is getting at. There are many North American breweries selling Belgian-style ales yet very few can compete with the standard. To have this little brewery spring up out of nowhere in semi-rural Michigan and do it is remarkable. Its neither terrior as an expression of soil and sun nor is it simply a talented reproduction. Is Humboldt Fog just a recipe for Morbier made with goats milk?
Are you sure about that, in either case? I don't think talent or quality are always enough. I mean, I've had domestic cheeses that move me in similar ways (many of them, over the last few years, from Lazy Lady), so you're right that there's talent and quality to be found, but I think the problem is the lack of concentration of quality producers -- which is why you find so many very good cheesemakers in just a few states, while in others
(even dairy-rich states) it's more hit-or-miss -- coupled with the logistics of distribution, which are formidable compared to France. I know, for example, that there are great cheeses in Wisconsin, because I have, on occasion, tasted a few, and I've read about more. I don't see them here, and I don't even see them in Minnesota, because my family's not in a place where there's any appreciable market for cheese that doesn't come in slices. (A slight exaggeration, but only slight.)
The Vermont, Wisconsin, and Colorado cheese industries, for example, might as well exist in isolation from each other, because there are almost no opportunities for people to taste them against each other, outside cheese competitions (which don't really benefit the public) and a very, very tiny number of fanatic cheesemongers in a few major cities. That's not good for either quality or talent, which need both concentration and competition, plus a market that benefits from both, to be elevated above the norm. What makes French cheese great is experience and/or tradition coupled with skill, sure, but what keeps them great and at the top of their field is that the French consumer has unimaginable choice, and doesn't have to buy a lesser cheese if they don't want to. (That so many French people are now buying lousy fake "camembert" in hypermarkets is an issue, of course, but that's a different discussion.) It's true for cheese, it's true for wine, so why wouldn't it be true for beer?
(even dairy-rich states) it's more hit-or-miss -- coupled with the logistics of distribution, which are formidable compared to France. I know, for example, that there are great cheeses in Wisconsin, because I have, on occasion, tasted a few, and I've read about more. I don't see them here, and I don't even see them in Minnesota, because my family's not in a place where there's any appreciable market for cheese that doesn't come in slices. (A slight exaggeration, but only slight.)
The Vermont, Wisconsin, and Colorado cheese industries, for example, might as well exist in isolation from each other, because there are almost no opportunities for people to taste them against each other, outside cheese competitions (which don't really benefit the public) and a very, very tiny number of fanatic cheesemongers in a few major cities. That's not good for either quality or talent, which need both concentration and competition, plus a market that benefits from both, to be elevated above the norm. What makes French cheese great is experience and/or tradition coupled with skill, sure, but what keeps them great and at the top of their field is that the French consumer has unimaginable choice, and doesn't have to buy a lesser cheese if they don't want to. (That so many French people are now buying lousy fake "camembert" in hypermarkets is an issue, of course, but that's a different discussion.) It's true for cheese, it's true for wine, so why wouldn't it be true for beer?