When Will I Learn: Dinner at the German Embassy

originally posted by David M. Bueker:
The issue with dry German Riesling is the same one for off-dry German Riesling. We must talk about three things: producer, producer, producer (sounds like Burgundy).

There's an ocean of crap on both sides of the sugar spectrum, but indeed the top trockens are great dry wines. Of course not all of them are actually dry. There's that 0-9 g/l range for residual sugar that leaves quite a lot of freedom in terms of how the final wine expresses itself. Just taste some of hte dry wines from Jonannes Leitz. That little bit (usually around 7-8 g/l) of sugar gives them the push from good but stern to delicious and drinkable. I'm sure (in my own mind...betting on it in my cellar) it will also help them age even better than some of the bone dry examples of German Riesling Trocken.

I do like Johannes Leitz's approach to trockens. If it ferments dry then fine, it can be dry, but if it doesn't he does not force it. So it's not like taking the sugar out of a perfectly good off-dry wine (hmmm, Kane wrong?), but rather letting the wine be what it wants to be. At least that's how Johannes says it goes for his top dry wines (e.g. Rottland Alte Reben).
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Actually, I don't recall anyone in Germany six weeks ago telling me that they had only a few grams of sugar in their trocken Riesling. They were at least at 5g (not even sure I can recall anyone that low) and most up around 7-9 g/l.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Actually, I don't recall anyone in Germany six weeks ago telling me that they had only a few grams of sugar in their trocken Riesling. They were at least at 5g (not even sure I can recall anyone that low) and most up around 7-9 g/l.
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Good. Perhaps some sense is prevailing in the overall trocken culture.
 
Hans Selbach told us that even the most regimented German trocken militia members will always prefer a Trocken with several grams RS to one with less. His opinion was that they want a dry wine, but not a completely dry one, based on his experience.
 
originally posted by Eden Mylunsch:

-Eden (I'd probably be a lousy diplomat - I rarely even know which fork to use, much less whose war crimes to embrace or denounce)
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Two easy rules to remember for those situations:
1. Always work inward from the outside utensils; if truly perplexed, take your cue from the hostess

2. To decide which war criminal to embrace, observe which is sitting closer to your head of state; should that criterion by inoperable, choose the one who has most recently appeared on "Dancing with the Junta."

Emily Post
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Actually, I don't recall anyone in Germany six weeks ago telling me that they had only a few grams of sugar in their trocken Riesling. They were at least at 5g (not even sure I can recall anyone that low) and most up around 7-9 g/l.
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One word : classical Franken - fermented like in the 60s with rambo yeasts. Say Paul Sauer at Weingut am Lump. Sptlese Trocken 2007 with 1.5g/l. Delicious, sappy and made from comparatively high yields (fortunately).

Trocken Schmitt in Randersacker also does that.

Wirsching has unfortunately not lived up to its policy to make the Sptlese Trocken S with less than 4g/l in 2006 and 2007 ...
 
originally posted by The Fish:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Actually, I don't recall anyone in Germany six weeks ago telling me that they had only a few grams of sugar in their trocken Riesling. They were at least at 5g (not even sure I can recall anyone that low) and most up around 7-9 g/l.
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One word : classical Franken - fermented like in the 60s with rambo yeasts. Say Paul Sauer at Weingut am Lump. Sptlese Trocken 2007 with 1.5g/l. Delicious, sappy and made from comparatively high yields (fortunately).

Trocken Schmitt in Randersacker also does that.

Wirsching has unfortunately not lived up to its policy to make the Sptlese Trocken S with less than 4g/l in 2006 and 2007 ...
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Jean -- I didn't visit in Franken this year and have so far mostly tasted only the Grosse Gewchse from the producers there in 2007. From what I remember (notes are not in front of me), I would be surprised if the GGs from Franken were that low in sugar; indeed, many seemed lacking a little structure and grip. In recent years, it has not been uncommon for Franken GGs to be higher in sugar than the regular trocken bottlings.
 
No, I think it means that their doctrine hasn't overwhelmed their taste buds - yet. Difficult to believe, given who we are speaking about, and I say that in the nicest way possible. Ever try to get a glass of still water in Germany?
 
Was I being cranky? I was at hockey yesterday evening with my child, maybe that's what you mean. Otherwise, not sure how I'm Tom-ish.
 
Jokes just get funnier when they're explained, as Coad knows. But...OK (and Chris, let me know how I do, because I haven't had to do this before): the "say they want dry, but actually want off-dry" desire is what retailers have long known represents mass-market consumers' preferences, at least in the States (I haven't talked to enough retailers elsewhere). So when you attributed this desire to Germans, I decided to draw a parallel between the two notions with a short quip referencing the aforementioned U.S. preference. And then, when you explained yourself at length in response to my little joke, I felt that a second connection could be drawn between your earnest desire to explain yourself instead of responding to the joke and the similarly earnest, flew-right-over-his-head reactions to jokes long exhibited by internet wine legend and WIWPEmeritus Tom Troiano. And thus, the uproarious laughter that I'm sure absolutely everyone on the planet enjoyed while reading this thread.

See, now isn't that just amazingly hilarious, now that I've explained it in detail?

Yeah, I thought so.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
I didn't visit in Franken this year and have so far mostly tasted only the Grosse Gewchse from the producers there in 2007. From what I remember (notes are not in front of me), I would be surprised if the GGs from Franken were that low in sugar; indeed, many seemed lacking a little structure and grip. In recent years, it has not been uncommon for Franken GGs to be higher in sugar than the regular trocken bottlings.
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Yep, GG are Euro-Trocken (9g/l) indeed. AFAIK, none of the Franconian version is truly Frnkisch trocken, i.e. less than 4g/l
 
originally posted by Thor:
See, now isn't that just amazingly hilarious, now that I've explained it in detail?

Yeah, I thought so.
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That 11% alcohol beer lovingly stored in the VT fridge is hitting the spot quite nicely, isn't it?

mlawton will need a diagram as well if he is to be a true Troianian.
 
originally posted by mlawton:
Was I being cranky? I was at hockey yesterday evening with my child, maybe that's what you mean. Otherwise, not sure how I'm Tom-ish.
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Well, he did admit to being a hockey Tom.
 
That 11% alcohol beer lovingly stored in the VT fridge is hitting the spot quite nicely, isn't it?
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Clavel 99 Les Garrigues last night, actually. And a corked Catherine Le G&oe;uil 04 Cairrane "La Felsch" that didn't add to the tally.

Every comic needs a straight man.
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You mean like Andy Dick?
 
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