Oxidized vs Oxidative

[David Erickson]

When you look up "oxidation" in the Oxford Companion, the entry begins with the words "wine fault." Yet we drink fino sherries, we drink Savagnin from the Jura, and a fortunate few drink Abe Schoener's concoctions and pronounce them wonderful. In our place, anyway, when we like the oxidized style, we say the wine is "oxidative." When we don't like it, we say it is "oxidized." Even when we dislike the style, if we know it was the winemaker's intention, we still say "oxidative." I'm curious whether others follow this informal taxonomy, where "oxidized" is presented as a negative, certainly as an unintended consequence, while "oxidative" is presented as a positive, representing a conscious choice of style. Or maybe you use the words interchangeably?

 

[Kay Bixler]

Look, it's either savory or sweet. Pick a side.

 

[SFJoe]

Flor wines are oxidized and reduced at the same time, a trick that can only be managed through the miracles of biology and topology acting together.

Madeira is straight-up oxidized, but somehow gets stinky in the bottle and needs decanting.

I don't follow your taxonomy in my own usage.

Discussion of the biochemistry and its results here:

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winedisorder.com

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

When I asked Richard Leroy about the oxidative flavors in some of his wines, he said that they dissipate with aeration. He added "leave an oxidized wine in the sun, and it will turn brown, but leave an oxidative wine in the same situation, and it will clear up and last several days". I had come to understand that the two processes share some flavor similarities that can lead to confusion but were actually opposites, oxidative being reductive.

 

[SFJoe]

Hipster wine folk in France have recently done some very innovative electrochemistry, overthrowing hundreds of years of so-called scientific knowledge.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

Yay! In practice, the theory is different.

(BTW, wasn't talking about voile/flor oxidativeness, just the garden variety vin nature kind)

 

[Cliff]

originally posted by SFJoe:
Hipster wine folk in France have recently done some very innovative electrochemistry, overthrowing hundreds of years of so-called scientific knowledge.

Mesmerism?

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by SFJoe:
Hipster wine folk in France have recently done some very innovative electrochemistry, overthrowing hundreds of years of so-called scientific knowledge.

Seriously? What are they doing, taking cyclic voltammagrams of vin jaune?

Mark Lipton

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by SFJoe:
Hipster wine folk in France have recently done some very innovative electrochemistry, overthrowing hundreds of years of so-called scientific knowledge.

Seriously? What are they doing, taking cyclic voltammagrams of vin jaune?

Oh, I remember being at the Salon years ago tasting some oxidized hipster chenin--browning, appley, my tasting note on it you'll appreciate: "[O]".

Anyhow, Jeff Connell was there, he might remember who the winemaker was, but the guy was going on and on about how the wine was "inoxidizable!"

I said, "Yeah, and they have the cyclic voltammogram to prove it!"

Terrible crapola wine, and even worse theory. But it (was?) a widely held view.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by SFJoe:

Oh, I remember being at the Salon years ago tasting some oxidized hipster chenin--browning, appley, my tasting note on it you'll appreciate: "[O]".

Anyhow, Jeff Connell was there, he might remember who the winemaker was, but the guy was going on and on about how the wine was "inoxidizable!"

I said, "Yeah, and they have the cyclic voltammogram to prove it!"

Terrible crapola wine, and even worse theory. But it (was?) a widely held view.

Not terribly surprising. Didn't Nicolas Joly claim something of the same sort? Anyway, when the wine starts out so oxidized, who gives a shit whether it can oxidize further? Pfffft.

Mark Lipton

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

I take it the sages are making short shrift of the oxidative v. oxidised distinction in non-flor/voile wines? If not, can the cyclic mammogram distinguish between the two?