report of Clos St. Hune premox

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Thanks, Mark. Are there conditions under which the phenolic material will be relatively inert (and not demand to react with anything that happens to be handy)?

Only if there is something else more reactive present in the wine. That's the rationale for adding sulfites: they react with oxygen faster than the phenolics do. But even sulfites, with time, will oxidize the phenolics, because of the energetic favorability of doing so. This could be prevented, I suppose, in the same way that Miller Brewing Co prevents photochemical decomposition (aka "skunkiness") of Miller High Life (thereby allowing them to bottle it in clear bottles, as opposed to the amber used by everyone else): add enough sodium borohydride (a potent reducing agent) to reduce everything in the wine. This is one of those clearcut cases, however, where one can argue that the cure is worse than the disease, as anyone who's tasted Miller can attest.

Mark Lipton
(posting in the aftermath of a rabbit and Volnay meal)
 
I bought some chicken parts the other day. When I opened the hermetically-sealed package I got a strong smell of sulfur.

But thanks to my Disorderly training, I knew that those legs and thighs were just a little reduced. I gave them some air and the funk went away, and I confidently proceeded with my dinner.

Thank you, Mark.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I bought some chicken parts the other day. When I opened the hermetically-sealed package I got a strong smell of sulfur.

But thanks to my Disorderly training, I knew that those legs and thighs were just a little reduced. I gave them some air and the funk went away, and I confidently proceeded with my dinner.

Thank you, Mark.

Skunky chicken, huh? Far be it from me to spoil your meal now, but those thiols are the product of bacteria, I'm fairly certain. Fortunately for you, cooking is a fairly well-developed technology by now. Your aeration trick did certainly oxidize the thiols, though, so I'll take your attaboy and run with it, Jeff.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I bought some chicken parts the other day. When I opened the hermetically-sealed package I got a strong smell of sulfur.

But thanks to my Disorderly training, I knew that those legs and thighs were just a little reduced. I gave them some air and the funk went away, and I confidently proceeded with my dinner.

Thank you, Mark.

Skunky chicken, huh? Far be it from me to spoil your meal now, but those thiols are the product of bacteria, I'm fairly certain. Fortunately for you, cooking is a fairly well-developed technology by now. Your aeration trick did certainly oxidize the thiols, though, so I'll take your attaboy and run with it, Jeff.

Mark Lipton
Maybe so, but whatever the reason, cervena cryovac'ed venison always has a good dose of the same. Bacterial, chemical, what have you, the venison parts are always better for a good whack with red wine and a bunch of alliums (free RSH to equilibrate the thiols? Who knows?).
 
Better in New Zealand, fresh from the cull.

Oh: '97 CFE, no premox at all last month. Rather brilliant, in fact. Conversation with Pierre Trimbach last month: certainly no premox in '97. No reliable problem in any vintage, though some are certainly more oxiodative than others.
 
I sampled a '97 CSH last week. It had what I considered to be a normal level of oxidation/maturity for the age involved. It did not show what I would say was premox, but it was not fresh as a daisy, either. Five years ago I tried a bottle that was fresh as a daisy, and drinking super young. But that was five years ago (maybe 6?).
 
To be honest, I have begun to worry about the NY supply. There seem to be more problems there. I'm not suggesting anything, because I don't want to get sued, but it seems unusual that problems would be regularly reported in the NY market but not elsewhere.

'97 is not a vintage in Alsace that anyone should be holding any longer, from anything, from anyone, for any reason. 2000 is getting there, too.
 
originally posted by Thor:

'97 is not a vintage in Alsace that anyone should be holding any longer, from anything, from anyone, for any reason. 2000 is getting there, too.

Seems that some sampling is in order for 2000.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I bought some chicken parts the other day. When I opened the hermetically-sealed package I got a strong smell of sulfur.

But thanks to my Disorderly training, I knew that those legs and thighs were just a little reduced. I gave them some air and the funk went away, and I confidently proceeded with my dinner.

Thank you, Mark.

Gross, man.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I sampled a '97 CSH last week. It had what I considered to be a normal level of oxidation/maturity for the age involved. It did not show what I would say was premox, but it was not fresh as a daisy, either. Five years ago I tried a bottle that was fresh as a daisy, and drinking super young. But that was five years ago (maybe 6?).

This sounds normal for the wine. Limited fruit supply. It will be interesting to see though if it continues to cruise in an austere and minerally fashion for a while, as a couple of its predecessors had done. The odds may be somewhat against this.
 
originally posted by Thor:


'97 is not a vintage in Alsace that anyone should be holding any longer, from anything, from anyone, for any reason. 2000 is getting there, too.

A 97 Leon Beyer Comte d'Eguisheim I had recently was fresh as a daisy and, if anything, still a little young. I've had a 2000 FE that was a deemed a few years on the young side of maturtity as well recently. Of course, all of those were bought in Norway.
 
As I was saying to David, perhaps in code, there are producers that are, in general, exceptions to the rule. Those are two of them. That said, I don't think there's much benefit to holding '97 CFE any longer. It's years away from decline, but I don't think it's going to get any better.
 
I'm uninterested in mine at the moment. It's been a few years since I've checked, but I can't imagine much has changed.
 
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