Chauvet/Lacan

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
It's been mentioned to me. I question the scope of the audience in English, though, in truth.
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Market decisions, bah, humbug.
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I wonder. Perhaps a WD-sponsored translation available only via Amazon. What's a reasonable estimate of the cost, Sharon?
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
A quick look at Amazon doesn't show any English translation of Chauvet. I can order Aesthetique du Vin from Amazon France, of course, but is there an English translation?
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See http://www.jprocher-editeur.com/pages/chauvet-vinsenquestion.htm. But I couldn't find any place that sells it via the internet. If anyone does, please let me(us) know.
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Amazon France has all of Chauvet available, including this one, which is the only one with a partial English translation. They do ship, at least to the US, for a price, of course.
 
Hi Levi,

Thanks for your initial post. I found it thought-provoking.

Is this the contrast:

- wine as a semantically meaningful real essence, which we express incompletely in various ways

versus

- wine as a fixed syntax, which we fill in semantically in a variety of ways

?

I have a preference for essences, mysteries, and epistemological limitations, so I'm not sure I'd like to switch over, but it's a cool thought experiment at least. If I've got where you're thinking from.
 
originally posted by Steven Spielmann:
Hi Levi,

Thanks for your initial post. I found it thought-provoking.

Is this the contrast:

- wine as a semantically meaningful real essence, which we express incompletely in various ways

versus

- wine as a fixed syntax, which we fill in semantically in a variety of ways

?

I have a preference for essences, mysteries, and epistemological limitations, so I'm not sure I'd like to switch over, but it's a cool thought experiment at least. If I've got where you're thinking from.
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I'm coming to the conclusion I must not have understood Levi. I say this unironically and I ask the following, albeit argumentative questions, neither ironically nor rhetorically. How can an essence, if by essence we mean a noumenon, have a meaning? Who intended the meaning? In contrast, how can a meaning, if we take meaning to be a successfully conveyed intended concept, have an essence? Is there some part of the meaning (as opposed to the conventions that convey it) that would not be part of its essence?

With regard to wine, if there is an essence to it and the winemaker's job is to convey that essence to us and not get in its way, then the wine he would convey wouldn't have his meaning (he was just getting out of its way) and unless the terroir has intentions, what other meaning does it have to convey? And again, if the winemaker communicates his meaning through the wine, wouldn't this have to be in addition to its essence since another winemaker communicating a different meaning with the same means would have then another essence, and as Plato says about true forms, there can't be two?

One could get out of this by saying that a winemaker's job is to mean the essence that is already there but this is wordplay and I don't think either Steven or Levi mean wordplay.

Is there something about meaning or something about essence I'm missing? Others seem to get their identity.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
A quick look at Amazon doesn't show any English translation of Chauvet. I can order Aesthetique du Vin from Amazon France, of course, but is there an English translation?
Click to expand...

See http://www.jprocher-editeur.com/pages/chauvet-vinsenquestion.htm. But I couldn't find any place that sells it via the internet. If anyone does, please let me(us) know.
Click to expand...

Amazon France has all of Chauvet available, including this one, which is the only one with a partial English translation. They do ship, at least to the US, for a price, of course.
Click to expand...

Done, thanks.
 
originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
It's been mentioned to me. I question the scope of the audience in English, though, in truth.
Click to expand...

Market decisions, bah, humbug.
Click to expand...

I wonder. Perhaps a WD-sponsored translation available only via Amazon. What's a reasonable estimate of the cost, Sharon?
Click to expand...

Oh, that's too much.

Which tome, or are we talking about the whole oeuvre?
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Do you think that a Greek might have said this before he mixed the concentrated (cooked down) wine with water?
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Yes.
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why? Seems the exact opposite stance.
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Says the Greek to himself, "I unlock the essence of the wine with this water."

His action is no different from adding time-in-wood to make barolo.
 
wine, music, poetry, art, drama, dance, (what else? I'm too old, or maybe drunk, to remember) came into the world from the place where Pegasus' hoof struck the earth, at Hippocrene. Do we think we can try to frame it with the language that we formulate using mere brains? Holy shit, you guys!

Also; I remember visiting Seghesio, in Barolo, in June of '96, and his best lot (at least best of them to my taste) was one in concrete which he intended to blend with those in oak, prior to bottling his "Barolo." Couple of things of interest, to me, at least, in this: A) If Barolo needs to be in wood for three years, why was this the best wine of the vintage? B) Didn't adding this lot disqualify the blend from being "Barolo?"

peace, y'all...
 
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