the exception that proves the rule? . . .

R

robert ames

robert ames
taking jancis robinson's 'guide to wine grapes' as a reference (hopefully a reasonable proposition), i come upon the following conundra:

permited grapes in champagne are pinot noir, pinot meunier, and chardonnay. yet aubry makes their “La Nombre d’Or Campanae Veteres Vites" from pinot blanc, pinot gris, petit meslier, and arbanne, along with the aforementioned 3.

permited grapes in (red) gigondas are grenache, syrah, and mourvedre. yet in my newly arrived book on gigondas (yes, that one), cinsault, counoise, and clairette are all mentioned as grapes used by different gigondas vignerons.

and, even if jancis is not to be trusted, we all know--or know where to look for--the 13 sanctified grapes of chateauneuf du pape. yet i have found references from time to time of producers there that use carignan, which of course is not on that hollowed roster, but a mere slut of the languedoc lake of wine.
 
"Four other grape varieties are permitted, mostly for historical reasons, as they are rare in current usage. The 2010 version of the appellation regulations lists seven varieties as allowed, Arbanne, Chardonnay, Petit Meslier, Pinot Blanc, Pinot Gris, Pinot Meunier, and Pinot Noir.[25] The sparsely cultivated varieties (0.02% of the total vines planted in Champagne) of Arbanne, Petit Meslier and Pinot Blanc, might still be found in modern cuvées from a few producers.[26] Previous directives of INAO make conditional allowances according to the complex laws of 1927 and 1929, and plantings made prior to 1938.[27] Before the 2010 regulations, the complete list of the actual and theoretical varieties also included Pinot de Juillet and Pinot Rosé.[28] The Gamay vines of the region were scheduled to be uprooted by 1942, but due to World War II, this was postponed until 1962,[29] and this variety is not allowed in Champagne today.[25]"

from wikipedia
 
thanks brian. great citation and sounds like the contributor knew his/her stuff.

not doubt this wiki post, but for what it's worth, i have read on wikipedia that nero d'avola and negroamoro are the same grape. alors.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
thanks brian. great citation and sounds like the contributor knew his/her stuff.

not doubt this wiki post, but for what it's worth, i have read on wikipedia that nero d'avola and negroamoro are the same grape. alors.
Click to expand...

Sure sure. reference with caution, of course.
 
Gigondas institutes maximums and minimums on Grenache--no less than 50%, nor more than 80%--and a minimum of 15% either Syrah, Mourvedre or both. It says you can't use more than 25% of the other allowed grapes, but it allows all the other Rhone varieties except Cinsault, I think. CdP does allow Cinsault. I don't know what Jancis is telling you, but you can find the AOC rules all over the web.
 
Jancis begins the piece on Champagne vine varieties in the OCW by saying "In the past a number of grape varieties were planted in Champagne. But today almost the whole vineyard is planted with three: Pinot Noir, Pinot Meunier and Chardonnay". There is a later reference in the same text to one of the others: "Petit Meslier".

I have not seen a reference in the OCW to exclusivity for the main three grapes although perhaps one might wonder why the other [extreme] rarities are not mentioned along with Petit Meslier for the sake of completeness. Arbanne [see here http://twitpic.com/6daah9] is the other odd one since the others including Meunier are mutations of Pinot. I wonder what Arbanne's DNA would say about its parentage.

AFAIK the couple of acres of Arbanne that remain can be replanted but the area cannot be extended or the grape planted elsewhere for use in Champagne.

As others have already said, they are ancient, established and still permitted but very rare post phylloxera when the main 3 became the preferred standard.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
Laherte also makes one from all seven permitted grapes (disclosure: I import the wines). CIVC allows it.
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In fact I have a Laherte Clos scheduled to open tomorrow night. I like it quite a bit. Thanks to Sharon for the original recommendation.
 
I believe Cedric Bouchard makes a 100% varietal pinot blanc under the Rose de Jeanne label. Haven't tried it though.
 
originally posted by Brian C:
I believe Cedric Bouchard makes a 100% varietal pinot blanc under the Rose de Jeanne label. Haven't tried it though.
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Had a bottle of it a few months ago - severe and rather uninteresting except as a curiosity.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
originally posted by Brian C:
I believe Cedric Bouchard makes a 100% varietal pinot blanc under the Rose de Jeanne label. Haven't tried it though.
Click to expand...

Had a bottle of it a few months ago - severe and rather uninteresting except as a curiosity.
Click to expand...

I would say it's more flamboyant than severe, if pressed for adjectives....
 
thanks for all the input. it looks the champagne angle has been explained--and that clairette is allowed in gigondas by the "25% other" clause (assuming that "other" is reference to the 13 chateauneuf varieties).

but what about carignan in chateauneuf du pape? is this just another instance of weasel words hidden in the depths of the aoc regulations? or is this indicative of enforcers looking the other way when the exception is small?

jonathan--if you could point me in the direction of places on the web to find aoc regulations that would be great. my (lack of) googling prowess has stymied my efforts to find them.

p.s. my jancis resource is "jancis robinson's guide to wine grapes".
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
originally posted by Brian C:
I believe Cedric Bouchard makes a 100% varietal pinot blanc under the Rose de Jeanne label. Haven't tried it though.
Click to expand...

Had a bottle of it a few months ago - severe and rather uninteresting except as a curiosity.
Click to expand...

I would say it's more flamboyant than severe, if pressed for adjectives....
Click to expand...

We had vastly different bottles. What year was yours? Mine was the 2005, and resembled drinking a cold sword.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
originally posted by Brian C:
I believe Cedric Bouchard makes a 100% varietal pinot blanc under the Rose de Jeanne label. Haven't tried it though.
Click to expand...

Had a bottle of it a few months ago - severe and rather uninteresting except as a curiosity.
Click to expand...

I would say it's more flamboyant than severe, if pressed for adjectives....
Click to expand...

We had vastly different bottles. What year was yours? Mine was the 2005, and resembled drinking a cold sword.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say it was uninteresting, but the palate did strike me as rather severe. I shudder to think what the vin clair tasted like.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
jonathan--if you could point me in the direction of places on the web to find aoc regulations that would be great. my (lack of) googling prowess has stymied my efforts to find them.
Click to expand...
I'm not Jonathan.

I don't play him on TV.

But here is the INAO main page and here is the consolidated text for the Chateauneuf-du-Pape AOC.

En francais, bien sur.
 
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