Latent oxidation flaw in 09 Clos Saron Pinot?

originally posted by SFJoe:
Thanks, Gideon, very interesting.

Sulfite also binds various flavor components.

It is also possible that certain flavors of light oxidation that might have been bound by sulfites (aldehydes, some alpha-beta unsaturated carbonyl compounds, etc.) that may be part of "bottle shock" may also go away over time as they slowly combine with active phenolics and so on. I'm making that up, and Professor Lipton can correct me, but it seems fairly reasonable.
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I have certainly seen early "oxydation" vanish in time. Often in our whites and rose, a couple of times with Pinot. I also have seen bret aromas decrese in time - not vanish, but somehow get re-integrated in the wine to some degree. And early signs of high VA sometime seem to get re-intergrated.

I am certainly not claiming that all "problems" and "spoilage" vanish and go away with further aging, but in my experience, if the wine is well constituted & balanced and has a good aging ability, many early pimples will indeed vanish in time.

To acknowledge Keith's earlier comment, I did observe a higher rate of problems surface in some of our 375ml bottlings.
 
"Specifically to the 09 Pinot: The 09 Pinot did get one shot of 35ppm at crush, and none thereafter."

the practices of the low sulfur movement (as described by alice's 'naked wine', for instance) pretty much only use sulfur at bottling, if at all. sulfur before fermentation is at odds with their approach. while i have no expertise regarding sulfur use, nonetheless i do find it interesting that with this wine the practice is completely the opposite.
 
originally posted by D. Zylberberg:
Popped the bottle around noon the next day. The remaining ~third wasn't volatile or "dead" - that happens all the time on day 2. It was, rather, clearly madeirized, with strong nutty notes of oxidation.

I can't remember this happening with a white, let alone a red which, in theory, should be able to stand up to 18 hours of light oxygen exposure. In view of the premox debacle, I wonder if there's some odd flaw here.
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I opened one of my 2009s back in early Nov and kept it open for 3 days, no gas, room temp. I found it fiercely young even on its third night, and clean as a whistle. So, no oxidation flaw, latent or otherwise.

In my experience, Gideon's red wines, of which I've had plenty, can throw some feral elbows in their youth, but oxidation has never been an issue.
 
originally posted by Emilio Castelli:
Gideon:
What was the pH at bottling?
Thanks
E
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Not checked, sorry. Historically, red wines from our region, vineyards, grapes, are usually between 3.1-3.5, mostly somewhere in the middle of this range. The Pinot with its 13.1% alcohol, is probably around 3.2-3.3.
 
originally posted by robert ames:
"Specifically to the 09 Pinot: The 09 Pinot did get one shot of 35ppm at crush, and none thereafter."

the practices of the low sulfur movement (as described by alice's 'naked wine', for instance) pretty much only use sulfur at bottling, if at all. sulfur before fermentation is at odds with their approach. while i have no expertise regarding sulfur use, nonetheless i do find it interesting that with this wine the practice is completely the opposite.
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My concerns are usual not the same as these other guys. We typically are not concerned about oxidation, since usually we work with grapes that contains unusually high levels of anthcyanins and phenolics and are not prone to oxidation; rather are very reductive. Hence no SO2 at bottling.

On the other hand, with non-inoculated fermentations, my concern was the possible early bacteriological activity which may raise the level of VA prior to the onset of fermentation and cause problems later on. To avoid that, my practice was to add SO2 to the crush.

With all matters of agricultural practices, vine growing, and cellar practices, I do not subscribe to any specific manifesto, however noble or philosophically exciting it is. I like to experiment, observe, make small variations and fine tuning. If over time I see that our new SO2 regime results in higher occurances of oxidative or microbial "problems" with our Pinot, we will experiment with alternative methods, always seeking to choose the least invasive option we see available.
 
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