Florida Jim
Florida Jim
What VLM said.
I don't get to the City as much as I'd like but that is the place.
THEPlace.
Best, Jim
I don't get to the City as much as I'd like but that is the place.
THEPlace.
Best, Jim
Need SF dinner recommendations
- Thread starter BJ
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John Donaghue
John Donaghue
Heirloom Cafe has a very nice prix fixe deal and a very decent by-the-glass list. Excellent food; I think they're doing the coffee-braised lamb again which is a dish I could eat every night for a year. Bonus is that you can usually get a seat without too much effort, and you can probably make reservations without starting three months in advance. They have a fairly short menu and it doesn't change as frequently as other places in the city, but the food is more than comparable to places like NOPA or Frances.
Speaking of which you could always give Frances a try, even without reservations. They have a small bar area for walk-ins; the trick is to go in right around the first turn (maybe 6ish) when the earliest early-birds are just finishing up. You might have to wait 10-15 minutes but the food is worth the attempt. If you do make it in go for the appetizers, salads, and small side dishes - everything else is excellent, but the aforementioned stuff is nearly always spectacular.
Speaking of which you could always give Frances a try, even without reservations. They have a small bar area for walk-ins; the trick is to go in right around the first turn (maybe 6ish) when the earliest early-birds are just finishing up. You might have to wait 10-15 minutes but the food is worth the attempt. If you do make it in go for the appetizers, salads, and small side dishes - everything else is excellent, but the aforementioned stuff is nearly always spectacular.
John McIlwain
John McIlwain
Swan Oyster Depot, crab louis, mmmmmmmmm... gout!
Bill Lundstrom
Bill Lundstrom
couldn't agree more. i use the cookbook a lot. roast chicken and old tempier rouge in october was sublime.
kirk wallace
kirk wallace
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
Paul Einbund is awesome.
Jim Hanlon
Jim Hanlon
Paul may be good, but he's not in the kitchen. This is the most over-rated restaurant in San Francisco for me. Been there three times and still waiting for my first exceptional meal.
Zachary Ross
Zachary Ross
Any love for Bar Jules? I had a very nice meal there a couple of years ago.
kirk wallace
kirk wallace
Don't forget Oliveto in Oakland, right across from the BART station in Rockridge. Really exceptional pasta, their own salume, and great roasted secondi. Very nice wine list and super sweet, smart, spoof-free service.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
I know a sometimes restaurant reviewer for the NYT who said to me that his recent meal at Bar Tartine was one of his most exciting in some time. I haven't been, myself.
Carl Steefel
Carl Steefel
I have not been back recently, but the last visit upstairs provided a quite expensive meal of only slightly above average quality at Oliveto. Before that, it was the downstairs cafe where they brought out spoiled meat and reheated (dried out) pasta. Unless they have brought their game back up, I think one could find much better places than this (Flour + Water, etc).
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Cotogna
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
You've got more stamina for punishment than I, Jim. The one meal that I had was a disaster.
Jim Hanlon
Jim Hanlon
Claude, I keep thinking there must be something to it, given generally positive reviews and immense popularity. I suspect that location has a big role. There's a lot of money for dining out in the Castro, and not a lot of high end restaurants. At least that's the best explanation I've come up with yet.
U
Unknown
Guest
i'd actually be interested in the opinions of folks who know way more about this than i, but the vibe i got from people who have (and still do) run chow joints in the castro is that foodwise, it is largely a black hole. the folks who tend to hang in the castro have things other than teh chow on their minds, and the affluent gay dollars that one might expect -- based on stereotype -- to be there have better places to go and be.
comments?
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comments?
fb.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
I know that one week after I went, a friend who is a prominent chef and his gf who also is professionally involved in food went, and they had a problematic experience, too. Some dishes good, others really bad. Terrible oversalting seems to be a problem, so there would seem to be control issues in the kitchen. Also, service is poor -- they don't leave your wine bottle at your table, which wouldn't be too bad if they noticed when you need a repour and responded, but they don't.
As for the fact that Frances has garnered a lot of praise, I can say the same for many other restaurants in SF that I consider poor, so that's not an argument that works for me.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
I'm not sure that as a residential area (as opposed to a cultural/business district), the Castro is really that gay. If you include all of Noe Valley, I know plenty of straights in the area, and relatively few of the gays I know are there -- anecdotal, sure, but still . . . .
Right now, I get the impression that low rents are the driving force for location of new, ambitious restaurants in SF, not economic distribution of the surrounding area. Moreover, even it were, there are plenty of other interesting restaurants not far from the Castro.
It wasn't 100%, but it was pretty darn queer when I lived there until 15 years ago.
My old rap on the place was that young Johnny Q. flees oppression in [small midwestern/southern town of choice], shows up in SF, moves to the Castro for solidarity and comfort, and brings his Sioux City palate with him. So the local places emphasized bland, boring food. Years later, newly filled wallet and husband in hand, he is a sophisticated San Franciscan foodwise, but he's moved to Pac Heights/SOMA/somewhere else with better food. And Johnny Q' has moved into his old apartment and is looking for fried chicken for dinner in the 'hood.
But the world, and doubtless the Castro, have changed a lot since then.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
YOu must remember the old Examiner ads, then -- A lot can change between 8 and 5. Well, I'd say even more can change between 1997 and 2012.
On his blog, Andrew Sullivan used to have a feature called "the end of gay culture," but he long ago gave it up because gays have become so accepted by and integrated into the mainstream. And of course, here more than anywhere.