Chris Coad
Chris Coad
This is really making me rethink the wisdom of purchasing those '47 Muscadets with "Ike" etched in the bottle.
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Who says Rudy can't fail?
- Thread starter gregory dal piaz
- Start date
This is really making me rethink the wisdom of purchasing those '47 Muscadets with "Ike" etched in the bottle.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
> (defun wineguess (tn)
(cond
((null tn) '(I do not know this wine.))
((equal (car tn) 'gobs) '(This is SQN.))
(t (wineguess (cdr tn)))))
WINEGUESS
> (wineguess '(a thin weedy wine))
(I DO NOT KNOW THIS WINE.)
> (wineguess '(there are hedonistic gobs of fruit))
(THIS IS SQN.)
(cond
((null tn) '(I do not know this wine.))
((equal (car tn) 'gobs) '(This is SQN.))
(t (wineguess (cdr tn)))))
WINEGUESS
> (wineguess '(a thin weedy wine))
(I DO NOT KNOW THIS WINE.)
> (wineguess '(there are hedonistic gobs of fruit))
(THIS IS SQN.)
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Depends on your cutoff. Grand crus from Billaud-Simon and Wm. Fèvre are pushing triple digits on release, although there is no secondary market increase that I'm aware of.originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by MLipton:
Tofurkey,
[...] and how reminiscent of the whole Rodenstock kerfuffle [...]
Mark Lipton
What I've been thinking. Another reason to drink Beaujolais, Muscadet, Chablis and red Burgundy from Savigny and Pernand.
I wouldn't leave out certain other red Burgundy communes. OTOH, I think some elite Chablis producers now command prices, at least on the secondary market, in the fakeosphere.
Oh yes, of course, forgot about Ravenaau, Dauvissat. Anyone else up there, Claude?
Yes, okay, for les Clos; most Fevre GC, anyway, is available from west coast gray marketers around $70. Still well below the aforementioned.
What's the fake-o-sphere's lower limit? I'd always imagined something like $200 or so, not that I spend a lot of time thinking about it.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
Actually, the sentence would have the same ambiguity regardless of whether you were following the American or British commas-in-a-series rule. The only way to leave it absolutely unambiguous would be instead to write it using algebraic parenthesis: "Another reason to drink (Beaujolais, Muscadet, Chablis, and (red Burgundy from (Savigny and Pernand)))."originally posted by SFJoe:
Ian, I think you need an extra comma.originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Another reason to drink Beaujolais, Muscadet, Chablis and red Burgundy from Savigny and Pernand.
I didn't realize they made Beaulolais, Muscadet, and Chablis from Savigny and Pernand.
My hero. [insert heart emoticon]
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
What's the fake-o-sphere's lower limit? I'd always imagined something like $200 or so, not that I spend a lot of time thinking about it.
It actually occurs at all levels -- there have been fake Mouton-Cadets on the market, and more recently, Jadot Pouilly-Fuissé, admittedly a step or two above M-C, but still not very high on the fake chain. The allegations reported in the press about Labouré-Roi say that 500,000 bottles worth about $3.4 million were cut with lesser wine beyond the 15% allowed. That comes out to $6.80 per bottle -- even if that's just the wholesale cost, we're talking about $15/bottle on the retail shelf, so not a very high class Burgundy.
U
Unknown
Guest
Jeff, nice algo for spoof. Got one for fakes ?
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
What's the fake-o-sphere's lower limit? I'd always imagined something like $200 or so, not that I spend a lot of time thinking about it.
It actually occurs at all levels -- there have been fake Mouton-Cadets on the market, and more recently, Jadot Pouilly-Fuissé, admittedly a step or two above M-C, but still not very high on the fake chain. The allegations reported in the press about Labouré-Roi say that 500,000 bottles worth about $3.4 million were cut with lesser wine beyond the 15% allowed. That comes out to $6.80 per bottle -- even if that's just the wholesale cost, we're talking about $15/bottle on the retail shelf, so not a very high class Burgundy.
Mouton-Cadet!? That's like counterfeiting one-dollar bills. I thought it was all about the romance of high rollers like Rudy and Rodenstock.
If Pouilly-Fuissé has fallen, can good Melon and cru Beaujolais be far behind?
I will repeat: "...what do you think producers, with access to original wines, bottles, corks and labels, could do?"
It's quite straightforward, really. Any place where there is a (steeply) tiered pricing system, e.g. in Burgundy, Champagne (mostly at the grapes level), Germany (VDP auctions) etc., without concomitant, easily perceptible differences*, the (strong) economic incentive is to game the system.
*: Especially when one is speedfuckingTM double-blind. I mean, seriously?
It's quite straightforward, really. Any place where there is a (steeply) tiered pricing system, e.g. in Burgundy, Champagne (mostly at the grapes level), Germany (VDP auctions) etc., without concomitant, easily perceptible differences*, the (strong) economic incentive is to game the system.
*: Especially when one is speedfuckingTM double-blind. I mean, seriously?
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Yixin:
I will repeat: "...what do you think producers, with access to original wines, bottles, corks and labels, could do?"
tell tall stories about when they harvested the grapes?
how would this differ from all the other ways that producers can cut corners when it comes to truthiness, y'know, things like, "we never spray," "we don't chaptalize," "we didn't add sulphur," "we never filter," "we didn't adjust the alcohol," "we didn't adjust the acidity," "all of the grapes comes from our own vineyards,"
"oh no, hahaha, that big bag of sugar / enzymes / powdered tannins is just a left over from the old days, before i found god."
fb.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Yixin:
FB, in terms of truthiness, not so much difference. But I don't see the same skew in pricing for lying about processes that I do for origins.
One could say that Rudy just did what (some) wine producers have been doing all along, and got caught.
so now Rudy is Khodorkovsky ?
I think me need a movement.
originally posted by .sasha:
You didn't think Don Rice actually came up with a bottle of 1961 Paul et Francois Richard Muscadet, did you ?
If someone would please send me the empty, I might be able to locate another bottle.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
two stories of fraud and fakery from an email from a prominent local shop:
"A week after the death of Barolo legend Aldo Conterno, a vindictive European broker flooded the market with Conterno's wines at simply unbelievable prices; he wanted to bury the Conterno brand along with Aldo. Essentially, the broker chose to use Conterno's death as a springboard to jettison all the wines he had in storage as a retaliation to the estate's firing him months earlier. ... [But] I'd tasted various wines from this broker's cellar in the last couple of years and had come to the conclusion that there were big problems with the way he cared for his wines."
"I bought a significant amount of expensive Burgundy from a broker after being assured by the producer that he was on the level, but when I tasted a bottle that I got for myself, I knew that it was plonk. The broker had sold us fraudulent wine. So I traced the bottles back through the producer and found that the broker had bought only the least expensive wine from this producer, obviously refilling bottles with plonk and then gluing on fraudulent Grand Cru labels, reusing the producer's original bottles and corks."
The email also discusses Zhen Wang Huang (a.k.a., R.K.) but only at a distance.
"A week after the death of Barolo legend Aldo Conterno, a vindictive European broker flooded the market with Conterno's wines at simply unbelievable prices; he wanted to bury the Conterno brand along with Aldo. Essentially, the broker chose to use Conterno's death as a springboard to jettison all the wines he had in storage as a retaliation to the estate's firing him months earlier. ... [But] I'd tasted various wines from this broker's cellar in the last couple of years and had come to the conclusion that there were big problems with the way he cared for his wines."
"I bought a significant amount of expensive Burgundy from a broker after being assured by the producer that he was on the level, but when I tasted a bottle that I got for myself, I knew that it was plonk. The broker had sold us fraudulent wine. So I traced the bottles back through the producer and found that the broker had bought only the least expensive wine from this producer, obviously refilling bottles with plonk and then gluing on fraudulent Grand Cru labels, reusing the producer's original bottles and corks."
The email also discusses Zhen Wang Huang (a.k.a., R.K.) but only at a distance.
Holy shit, take a look at this.
You might not care that much, but this is going to make for some awesome schadenfreude.
Who exactly is this Greenberg motherfucker? I've heard him called a "tech entrepreneur", which means exactly zilch.
You might not care that much, but this is going to make for some awesome schadenfreude.
Who exactly is this Greenberg motherfucker? I've heard him called a "tech entrepreneur", which means exactly zilch.
But man, there must be some lawyers billing some big hours all over the place.
I have some favorite candidates that I'd like to see go down.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by SFJoe:
I have some favorite candidates that I'd like to see go down.
shit. was my fake jayer really so bad?
fb.
Nah, it was truly from the Golden Age of wine counterfeiting.originally posted by fatboy:
shit. was my fake jayer really so bad?