TN: Da Other Prof and Old Sancerre (Apr 12, 2012)

[Jay Miller]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by VLM:

Do you have to be tenured to be The Professor? Tenure is dead where I am, so I may never get to qualify...

* Many years ago Dear Abby counseled that, in social situations, only medical doctors should be addressed as Dr. so-and-so. Whether being hailed in the hallway or on the phone would qualify to the late Ms. Lederer as a social situation I never ascertained, but I lean toward that interpretation.

Miss Manners says the same thing.

 

[Sharon Bowman]

originally posted by Yule Kim:
N.B. Who would have thought chicken was such a militant species of poultry.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by MLipton:


That is interesting, Mr. Other. When I was a student I would never have dreamed of referring to any of my profs by anything other than Prof. so-and-so. Addressing them as Mr. Mrs. or Miss would have seemed subtly dismissive of their status to me and I don't recall my peers behaving differently. Perhaps we johnnies-come-lately on the West Coast weren't as secure in our status and needed the additional external reassurance?

I think Mr. may indeed be an East coast Ivy league thing. It was true at both Brown and Cornell, way back when. My informants tell me it was true of Hopkins way back when, so not just ivy. I don't have further information.

When I was in high school, it was insisted on that the few teachers who had phuds were addressed as Dr. My sense was since University's are rotten with phuds, at the time it was reverse-snobbery snobbery.

Well, I used to call William von Eggers Doering "Bill" when I was an undergraduate.

Hahaha, as if.

"Prof. Doering" was plenty good enough for me, and I was a periodic guest at his house.

Similarly, I took the Lipton tack when in grad school, and I don't recall a difference of practice among anyone.

Although I did teach my Taiwanese labmate to greet everyone with "Howdy, Pardner." But he was careful to ask, "This is an informal greeting, yes? Not for Professor Breslow?"

"Professor" was always an alternative, I guess, though just an alternative. Dr., never.

When I was an undergrad, we did have profs who insisted on being called by their first name. This was in the days of questioning authority. I decided early on that if you couldn't express respect by giving some title (Prof, Dr., Mr.), you would find you had to express respect in ways that I find less acceptable (treating that first-name prof as a guru), so I was never in favor of that, particularly.

In grad school, at a certain point, profs did move us to a first-name basis, I think as a form of acceptance into the guild.

 

[Cliff]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by MLipton:


That is interesting, Mr. Other. When I was a student I would never have dreamed of referring to any of my profs by anything other than Prof. so-and-so. Addressing them as Mr. Mrs. or Miss would have seemed subtly dismissive of their status to me and I don't recall my peers behaving differently. Perhaps we johnnies-come-lately on the West Coast weren't as secure in our status and needed the additional external reassurance?

I think Mr. may indeed be an East coast Ivy league thing. It was true at both Brown and Cornell, way back when. My informants tell me it was true of Hopkins way back when, so not just ivy. I don't have further information.

When I was in high school, it was insisted on that the few teachers who had phuds were addressed as Dr. My sense was since University's are rotten with phuds, at the time it was reverse-snobbery snobbery.

Well, I used to call William von Eggers Doering "Bill" when I was an undergraduate.

Hahaha, as if.

"Prof. Doering" was plenty good enough for me, and I was a periodic guest at his house.

Similarly, I took the Lipton tack when in grad school, and I don't recall a difference of practice among anyone.

Although I did teach my Taiwanese labmate to greet everyone with "Howdy, Pardner." But he was careful to ask, "This is an informal greeting, yes? Not for Professor Breslow?"

"Professor" was always an alternative, I guess, though just an alternative. Dr., never.

When I was an undergrad, we did have profs who insisted on being called by their first name. This was in the days of questioning authority. I decided early on that if you couldn't express respect by giving some title (Prof, Dr., Mr.), you would find you had to express respect in ways that I find less acceptable (treating that first-name prof as a guru), so I was never in favor of that, particularly.

In grad school, at a certain point, profs did move us to a first-name basis, I think as a form of acceptance into the guild.

In England, Professor was a big deal and reserved for the very few; there weren't many of them. But Dr. could be a bit pejorative. The really hot folks got their jobs without having to write a thesis. It was cooler to be Mr. or Ms. I thought there was an East vs. West divide in the States, where everyone in the East was presumed to have PhD, so people use Prof.

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

Dettori Tenores 2005 IGT "Romangia" - 16% abv, Sardinian horror show made from cannonau, full-on nose of paint thinner, astringent, nasty

You capture the wine exactly, btw.

Every Dettori red I've ever had has been similarly crappy. I like the vermentino.

I had beautiful Tenores from the same batch a couple of months ago, though I have now had many more misses than hits. About the same as my record with Cornelissen. I think Dettori is the Cornelissen of Sardinia.

originally posted by Prof. Lipton:

I've got a swivel chair -- highly recommended!

HTH
Mark Lipton

I prefer a recliner.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
In grad school, at a certain point, profs did move us to a first-name basis, I think as a form of acceptance into the guild.

Bingo. Remember: for them, as well as for you, "Mr. Feynman" is his dad.

 

[Cliff]

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
In grad school, at a certain point, profs did move us to a first-name basis, I think as a form of acceptance into the guild.

Bingo. Remember: for them, as well as for you, "Mr. Feynman" is his dad.

For us it was after orals.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
In grad school, at a certain point, profs did move us to a first-name basis, I think as a form of acceptance into the guild.

That was my experience, at least within my committee. I generally use Professor as an honorific. It is a step up from Dr., which I would like to reserve for people who have actually written a dissertation.

My students wanted to call me Professor when I was a graduate student teacher, which I quickly corrected.

As colleagues, we often refer to each other as "Dr. X" or "Prof. Y". It is mostly slightly ironic except in the case of introducing colleagues to outsiders.

I like to ask medical doctors the subject of their dissertation.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
In grad school, at a certain point, profs did move us to a first-name basis, I think as a form of acceptance into the guild.

That was my experience, at least within my committee. I generally use Professor as an honorific. It is a step up from Dr., which I would like to reserve for people who have actually written a dissertation.

My students wanted to call me Professor when I was a graduate student teacher, which I quickly corrected.

As colleagues, we often refer to each other as "Dr. X" or "Prof. Y". It is mostly slightly ironic except in the case of introducing colleagues to outsiders.

I like to ask medical doctors the subject of their dissertation.

Oh, come on. Everybody knows that MDs are the real doctors. Remember the old joke:
"My son just became a doctor."

"Is he a doctor doctor, or just a dentist doctor."

"Worse, he's a professor doctor."

Also, if you get your reservation in a restaurant as a doctor, they will be real peeved if one of their patrons needs emergency help and they turn to you.

 

[Steven Spielmann]

I tell my students to address me by my first name because I believe in a classless society, free love, redistribution of wealth, long hair, and so forth. Some are not comfortable with that level of familiarity, though, and from them I request Dr. S rather than Mr. S. I spent too much time on that fucking dissertation not to get something for it.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by SFJoe:


Well, I used to call William von Eggers Doering "Bill" when I was an undergraduate.

Hahaha, as if.

"Prof. Doering" was plenty good enough for me, and I was a periodic guest at his house.

I doubt that anyone but his closest friends referred to him by his first name, especially back in his heyday when he wasn't noted for his kindly disposition.

Similarly, I took the Lipton tack when in grad school, and I don't recall a difference of practice among anyone.

Although I did teach my Taiwanese labmate to greet everyone with "Howdy, Pardner." But he was careful to ask, "This is an informal greeting, yes? Not for Professor Breslow?"

Yeah, I recall Dan Kahne telling me that even his own research group called Prof. Stork "Prof. Stork." I don't recall anyone calling him Gilbert or anything else (except for an infamous seminar by the late Dick Schlessinger in which at one point told Prof. Stork "Sit down, turkey!" Not recommended bedside manner, as you might have surmised.)

Very nice of you to treat your Taiwanese labmate so well. I recall some less scrupulous grad students teaching newly arrived Japanese postdocs that a standard informal greeting in New York was "Fuck you!" which actually isn't far off the mark but still not so nice.

Herr Professor Doktor Mark Lipton

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by MLipton:
Herr Professor Doktor Mark Lipton

Heh. A friend who worked at the Max Planck Institute said they would refer to each other as Herr Professor Doktor Kollege.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

In grad school, at a certain point, profs did move us to a first-name basis, I think as a form of acceptance into the guild.

Not in mine. It was more a question of when you had actually done something after you graduated.

Of course, fresh junior faculty were in a different category than people who'd been in the National Academy since before I was born.

But perhaps I am more formal than some.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by SFJoe:


Well, I used to call William von Eggers Doering "Bill" when I was an undergraduate.

Hahaha, as if.

"Prof. Doering" was plenty good enough for me, and I was a periodic guest at his house.

I doubt that anyone but his closest friends referred to him by his first name, especially back in his heyday when he wasn't noted for his kindly disposition.

Yah, the guy was intimidation personified.

I think Woodward was allowed to call him Bill.

 

[Rahsaan]

originally posted by Steven Spielmann:
I tell my students...I believe in...free love...

You should be careful in this age of omnipresent cameras and recorders.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by MLipton:
even his own research group called Prof. Stork "Prof. Stork."

When did Jean begin to call her thesis advisor by his first name (ignoring gender disparities and etc.)?

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by MLipton:
even his own research group called Prof. Stork "Prof. Stork."

When did Jean begin to call her thesis advisor by his first name (ignoring gender disparities and etc.)?

Errr... never? Truth be told, I think that he still intimidates her more than a little, mostly because she's had a few awkward interactions with him (nothing sordid, just no natural rapport) She was on a first name basis with my research advisor before getting her Ph. D., though.

Mark Lipton

 

[Mr. Doghead]

Boy, there is a lot of explaining to be done here. And reexplaining, it appears.

But never mind.

At least I was not missed. The wine I had planned to bring turned out to be an unrepresentative near-dud and would have required more explanation.

Meantime, in the obstetrics department, the soft-shoers have paged a spirity Dr. Scholls to translate a spoofed brogue diagnosis of a decade of one man's misfortune.

Or we can call the whole thing off.

 

[Steven Spielmann]

Rahsaan - that's an addition of ellipses that represents me as saying something I did not. I actually tend not to tell my students anything at all about my personal beliefs if I can avoid it - it distract from presentation of the subject matter and the need to give arguments on all sides the best defense and critique they can get.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

I hadn't thought of that; I guess mid-sentence editorial ellipses should be written in square brackets.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Steven Spielmann:
Rahsaan - that's an addition of ellipses that represents me as saying something I did not. I actually tend not to tell my students anything at all about my personal beliefs if I can avoid it - it distract from presentation of the subject matter and the need to give arguments on all sides the best defense and critique they can get.

I would guess Rahsaan assumed you were joking around, as did I, and so to further joke around, he shortened the phrase, not really changing the meaning in any case.

What led to this sudden access of solemnity?