Singular wines

[Claude Kolm]

originally posted by Brad Kane:

Using Keith's Yquem example, first off, can you really tell it apart on a regular basis from say Climens? If you go by weight, or say oak use, that's not really terroir, is it? Personally, I don't find Sauternes terroir-driven wines.

Wow! I haven't had any Sauternes vintages since that of 2000, but I can't think of anything that used easier to tell apart than Yquem and Climens. Climens isn't a Sauternes, of course, it's a Barsac (or Barsac-Sauternes as the label says) and that's a different animal from a Sauternes, even though Barsacs have the right to be labelled Sauternes. And of course Yquem has or had Sauvignon in the blend (unless you're Michel Bettane who famously claimed that the Comte Lur Saluces didn't know what he was talking about when he (Lur Saluces) said there was Sauvignon in the wine), while Climens does not.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by Larry Stein:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by Ned Hoey:
Domaine Belluard Vin de Savoie Blanc Gringet Le Feu

Literally no peers.

True, although I didn't want to list any SM wines.

I have a few of these, but have yet to open one. Should I open one now or would that be a mistake, and I should bury these in the cellar?

Larry, if you have a few, open one now. The wine's very enjoyable. I think they'll age, but haven't drunk an old one.

 

[Ned Hoey]

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by Larry Stein:

originally posted by Jim Hanlon:

originally posted by Ned Hoey:
Domaine Belluard Vin de Savoie Blanc Gringet Le Feu

Literally no peers.

True, although I didn't want to list any SM wines.

I have a few of these, but have yet to open one. Should I open one now or would that be a mistake, and I should bury these in the cellar?

Larry, if you have a few, open one now. The wine's very enjoyable. I think they'll age, but haven't drunk an old one.

I'd say try one now too. This should easily manage the dual role of an intense fresh bright youth that will then age into something compelling.

I guess I'll add another SM wine that does exist with many peers but seems at this point to have none.
Domaine Les Roches Chinon rouge. At least that's the impression from a recent trip. We didn't do an exhaustive study but it seems no one else with a terroir of comparable quality is utilizing it to produce anything like what the Lenoir family does.

 

[Larry Stein]

originally posted by Ned Hoey:

I guess I'll add another SM wine that does exist with many peers but seems at this point to have none.
Domaine Les Roches Chinon rouge. At least that's the impression from a recent trip. We didn't do an exhaustive study but it seems no one else with a terroir of comparable quality is utilizing it to produce anything like what the Lenoir family does.

I love Les Roches Chinon as much as the next guy. However, the old Joguet Chinons I've tasted (mid-80s through early 90s) have been quite amazing. Based on that, I'm not sure I would call it a singular wine.

Thanks for the Le Feu response.

 

[Levi Dalton]

originally posted by SFJoe:
Yoo hoo, Levi...?

Last time around I got heavily involved in definition arguments and defending my own list and views. It took the fun out of it. I really like the discussion so far, and I thought I would let it run for awhile.

If I go in and say, well, that wine doesn't count because of so and so stipulation of my thought exercise, it ends up badly. Or so I have experienced.

I would suggest that folks make their definition apparent through their choices.

 

[Keith Levenberg]

Some more candidates I think I feel comfortable nominating:
La Sibilla piedirosso
Renaissance's cabernets
Peter Lauer 'Senior'
Biondi-Santi
Verset
Salon

 

[Ned Hoey]

originally posted by Larry Stein:

originally posted by Ned Hoey:

I guess I'll add another SM wine that does exist with many peers but seems at this point to have none.
Domaine Les Roches Chinon rouge. At least that's the impression from a recent trip. We didn't do an exhaustive study but it seems no one else with a terroir of comparable quality is utilizing it to produce anything like what the Lenoir family does.

I love Les Roches Chinon as much as the next guy. However, the old Joguet Chinons I've tasted (mid-80s through early 90s) have been quite amazing. Based on that, I'm not sure I would call it a singular wine.

Thanks for the Le Feu response.

The key qualifier, "at this point". No one else in Chinon left producing wine like Les Roches. It's singular these days.

The only remotely comparable Loire cab franc experienced on the trip was an 05 Clos Rougeard "Clos". Not a Chinon.

 

[Sharon Bowman]

originally posted by Ned Hoey:
The key qualifier, "at this point". No one else in Chinon left producing wine like Les Roches. It's singular these days.

The only remotely comparable Loire cab franc experienced on the trip was an 05 Clos Rougeard "Clos". Not a Chinon.

Ned, much as I like Les Roches, how on earth do you see similarities with Clos Rougeard?

 

[Ned Hoey]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:

originally posted by Ned Hoey:
The key qualifier, "at this point". No one else in Chinon left producing wine like Les Roches. It's singular these days.

The only remotely comparable Loire cab franc experienced on the trip was an 05 Clos Rougeard "Clos". Not a Chinon.

Ned, much as I like Les Roches, how on earth do you see similarities with Clos Rougeard?

What I meant by "remotely comparable" was simply as being a singular and exceptional producer distinct in their peer group. Not that the wines are directly comparable in style.

 

[Bill Lundstrom]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
For those saying Movia's Lunar, why that and not other orange wines?

Past fads be damned, I could still drink orange wine every day (if I could afford to).

i've only had the lunar twice and both times i thought it tasted like no wine i have ever had. i am not even sure what foods would work with it. i thought the wine was uniquely compelling so i included it here.
( i have one more in the cellar, does this go anywhere interesting with some age?)

oh and thanks for the knew word; hippogriff. i love it. i cant stop saying it. i dont even care what it means.

 

[Bill Lundstrom]

i've not had any of the metras beaujolais but just sprung for a few. would they qualify for this list?

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
i've not had any of the metras beaujolais but just sprung for a few. would they qualify for this list?

I don't think so. They are very good, but you wouldn't call them orthogonal to, say, Foillard.

 

[John Roberts]

Marsala from de Bartoli?

 

[Jeff Grossman]

 

[maureen]

well, I hate to be predictable but Truchot's wines were pretty singular.

 

[Jim Hanlon]

originally posted by John Roberts:
Marsala from de Bartoli?

Good call.

 

[Levi Dalton]

originally posted by maureen:
well, I hate to be predictable but Truchot's wines were pretty singular.

Like you mean there is only a bottle of each left, or somewhere thereabouts?

 

[Chris Coad]

Are non-grape wines part of the equation?

Because Ulupalakua Ranch's Maui Blanc is certainly singular, IMHO.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

originally posted by Chris Coad:
Are non-grape wines part of the equation?

Because Ulupalakua Ranch's Maui Blanc is certainly singular, IMHO.

This opens the door for white zinfandel.

 

[Robert Dentice]

I think a singular wine has to be clearly identifiable and different than any other wine. For me the best example is the 2005 Scholium Project Cena Trimalchionis. I would bet my life I could identify the wine blind. It has only been made once and will never be made again and it is in my opinion Abe's best wine. It was made from grapes that had an unusual boytritis that has never been seen since. The grapes were discarded by other producers and most likely would have not been used had Abe not offered to take them.

The story 2005 Cena Trimalchionis.