London Olympics!

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
As long as we're being pedantic...
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
The title marchioness barely exists in English.
Click to expand...

It's not like Abbes are running the streets, either.

The point is that there are certain ways we talk about people with foreign titles in English renderings of works describing them. That was my sole point.

We don't say Sir Quijote, or what have you. And we tend to say Abbé for French abbés, because the function hasn't an Anglo equivalent. But strip the é if you think that makes the best English.

I am a little bit worried—and I say this nicely—that a few sentences have stirred up so much muck. How long's that Sue novel, again? 1,000 pages, give or take?
Click to expand...

One can go on forever about any translation of any sentence. Because each choice raises an issue of theory or interpretation. My students get different translations of French novels I teach and can worry sentences for long periods. There are occasional howlers that are disturbing. Much of the rest is like wondering whether you should add this accent over this e.

This passage is actually an untroubling one. There are much more difficult ones because of what to do with slang.
 
So interesting to see the description "secular cleric" in a serious work:

Loading…

www.newadvent.org

I don't read French at all, but I'm not startled to see an accent on Abbé.
 
Whales, dolphins... so much fish for princes.

FWIW, the Wikipedia says that the dolphin appeared on the crest of the Counts of Vienne sometime during the 12th C. The province was sold to Philippe VI in 1349 on condition that the heir apparent assume the title.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Whales, dolphins... so much fish for princes.

FWIW, the Wikipedia says that the dolphin appeared on the crest of the Counts of Vienne sometime during the 12th C. The province was sold to Philippe VI in 1349 on condition that the heir apparent assume the title.
Click to expand...

The name and crest would seem to derive from Guigues IV of Albon (c. 10951142), Count of Albon, who was nicknamed "Le Dauphin" (for reasons unknown to me -- maybe he looked like one?)

It all sounds fishy to me.
Mark Lipton
 
I'm sure Cliff is on H-France, but what about you Jonathan? I see these types of requests there all the time, but haven't noticed this one so I'm guessing you haven't floated it there?
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
H-FranceI'm sure Cliff is on H-France, but what about you Jonathan? I see these types of requests there all the time, but haven't noticed this one so I'm guessing you haven't floated it there?
Click to expand...

No, I'm not. I'll look it up. I gave up on Victoria because it was a case of boring stuff driving out good stuff. But it was, at least until I left it an incredible resource for trivial historical questions. The guy who wrote the Crimson Petal and the White did a lot of his historical research there. Maybe H-France will be like that.
 
Lucy Norton, brilliant translator of my fave rave Duc, uses the accent:

Index_abbe.jpg
 
The note says:

"The title abbé is muddling. Some abbés, e.g. the Abbé de La Trappe, were abbots and ruled monasteries. But most of the abbés mentioned in the memoirs were nothing of the sort. The title was used by all who wore clergyman's bands because they had studied theology. At this period, except for the very rich, everyone had to go to a theological college for higher education, which is why abbés were so abundant in seventeenth- and eighteenth-century France. Few were ordained, and thus their conduct was not expected to be holier than that of laymen. Indeed as they were usually unmarried, it tended to be a good deal worse."
 
In the 19th century fiction I know, they all were priests and were referred to as such. There is one other in Sue and he is explicitly a curate. The one we are arguing about is referred to as a priest. Someone who has read the Count of Monte Cristo more recently than I have will know about the Abbé Faria but my memory is that he was a priest too.
 
I think handball is kick-ass. It sort of makes me think of a cross between basketball and soccer, or like lacrosse without the checking. I could have had a winter sport if it were played in the states (well, it probably is at some boarding school).
 
originally posted by VLM:
Personally
I think handball is kick-ass. It sort of makes me think of a cross between basketball and soccer, or like lacrosse without the checking. I could have had a winter sport if it were played in the states (well, it probably is at some boarding school).
Click to expand...

Or in city parks all over: not quite boarding school
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by VLM:
Personally
I think handball is kick-ass. It sort of makes me think of a cross between basketball and soccer, or like lacrosse without the checking. I could have had a winter sport if it were played in the states (well, it probably is at some boarding school).
Click to expand...

Or in city parks all over: not quite boarding school
Click to expand...

Different handball.

Whoa.
Click to expand...

Yeah; I know; that stuff is great. I was just amused b/c there is a City handball court on my way to the subway from home (and vice versa) and it is amazing to watch these guys, and then the idea of boarding school superimposed on that ... well, it did make me smile.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top