The Meat

originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
Pre salting for 24-48 hours is essential.
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For the unenlightened among us: where does the salt go, and how much?

(I have not learned how to pre-salt but I certainly know enough to have never brined any bird.)
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Sprinkle salt ,about a tablespoon or so ,all over a 2-3 lb bird. Let it sit in a fridge uncovered for 24-48 hours. Best way to get crispy skin. And someow the salt , while it draws moisture out, will get reabsorbed into the bird. That's how I understand the concept.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Taking my teenager out to camp two hours north of SF next weekend so we'll finally get to try La Ciccia and Zuni Cafe, and pay a return visit to Aziza, so wonderful last year. At La Ciccia, naturally I'll be inclined to drink Sardinian, but since I'll be the only one drinking, I'm hoping there will be BTG pairing options at sub-Dettorian abv levels.
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At Zuni, whether or not you have the patience for the chicken -- We rarely do -- the raw bar is not to be ignored. The hamburger is also very good. The pizza is ok, but not worth the calories, given the other choices for pizza in SF. The Caesar salad is Vaux Le Voyage. The little gems maybe even better. And whatever sausage or pork part they are offering from the grill. With polenta if you are hungry. Some decent half bottle choices too. But I get to visit only 3 times a year. Others may have better recs.
 
Another roast chicken obsédé here. But I have to say that while Zuni is good, it's not in the top rung for me. Best of all, I like my version, a combination of Chez Panisse (Bertolli), Robuchon, Hazan, and my own additions.

But the quality of the bird is the important first step. Some wine friends from Beaune are coming up to Paris next month after we close on the new place; may have to try a poulet de Bresse from the local marché out on them.

And unrelated: Happy anniversary, Larry!
 
I dunno, I like brining. But my brining liquid is not that sugary, and I use it mainly for aromatics (which go into the cavity with a temperature-regulating apple or two).
 
I would be inclined to agree that the objection may be to the composition of the brine, not to the method - because liquid + salt = brine, no matter if the liquid came from inside the bird or outside.
 
Tough to use pan drippings from salty water brined birds for sauce.

Absolutely agree on stuffing the cavity with anything (potato, apple, orange, onion) to regulate temperature and keep the breast meat from being over cooked.
 
originally posted by mlawton:
I would be inclined to agree that the objection may be to the composition of the brine, not to the method - because liquid + salt = brine, no matter if the liquid came from inside the bird or outside.
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my first thought would be that just dry salting a bird would be a cure not brine. but i could be wrong.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
Zuni=roast chicken. ze best.
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I feel this way in general, but my last anecdote was sub-thrilling. I imagine the next table had a better one, or what have you. (they did just lose their chef, after all).

On a separate note, the crazy expensive whole raw chickens at Marlow & Daughters cook up fabulously on the rotisserie, and compete to some degree with Zuni.

It's no Ellenbogen effort off the Weber, or any such, but a pretty damn good bird.
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so... no chicken?
 
originally posted by scottreiner:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Robuchon
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Jamin, or a more recent version?
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cant speak for claude but, i assumed he meant robuchons method of searing both thighs and the underside of a bird before roasting so they finish at the same time.
 
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
originally posted by scottreiner:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
Robuchon
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Jamin, or a more recent version?
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cant speak for claude but, i assumed he meant robuchons method of searing both thighs and the underside of a bird before roasting so they finish at the same time.
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Nope. My way is totally lazy. But I roast at a high heat. I once posted it on a private site. I'll see if I can find it and repost here.
 
OK, found it:

Usually have 3.5-4 lb bird, organic if possible. Wash and dry bird, pull out fat remaining on flap.

If possible, but I don't always do it, I cut a lemon or two, or better a lime or two, in halves or quarters and rub the bird all over. Put the halves or quarters in the cavity.

Put a couple of tablespoons of fennel seed in a mortar and crush. Add dried red pepper, salt, and black pepper ad mix with fennel seed. Rub all over the outside of the bird and put the rest into the cavity. Put a few cloves of crushed garlic in the cavity and whatever herbs you feel like, e.g., thyme or rosemary.

I suspend a rack over a pan and put the bird on the rack and roast at 425º in a preheated oven for about an hour. I rarely bother to truss the bird, rarely bother to turn it, and never baste it.

Take out of oven, salt and pepper the bird, let rest for 15 mins, slanted so juices run to the neck, and then cut into pieces.

I sometimes put cut up potato slices beneath the rack to catch the juices and become confit, but more often lately, I roast the potato slices separately -- healthier that way.

A bed of watercress or arugula is attractive for putting all the pieces on when serving, and also good for eating with the chicken, especially the watercress.
 
Another excellent recipe:

Here's a real beaut adapted from/inspired by Brigitte Tilleray's wonderful The Frenchwoman's Kitchen. Morels make this a very special treat, especially with a fine Burgundy or a wine from the Jura.

1 lemon
1 organic chicken
dried (and reconstituted) or fresh wild mushrooms
salt and pepper
8 oz heavy cream/nonfat yogurt
watercress to garnish

Preheat oven to 425ºF

Halve lemon and rub chicken skin with it

Put mushrooms in cavity, secure vent opening with a small skewer

Roast and baste with 2 teaspoons of cream or yogurt at a time -- baste as often as possible

I roast for about 1 hr/3.5 lbs, but it varies

let rest

take out mushrooms and serve on side with cream/yogurt

cut up bird and put on watercress
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
But I have to say that while Zuni is good, it's not in the top rung for me. Best of all, I like my version, a combination of Chez Panisse (Bertolli), Robuchon, Hazan, and my own additions.
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Sounds expensive.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
But I have to say that while Zuni is good, it's not in the top rung for me. Best of all, I like my version, a combination of Chez Panisse (Bertolli), Robuchon, Hazan, and my own additions.
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Sounds expensive.
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:) Not really; if I'm going to splurge, it's for the wine -- although plenty of time, it's served with (undervalued) Beaujolais.
 
I haven't had too many complaints about my roast chicken, except for maybe the time I get around to serving them. I don't do a brine or a pre salting, but the real trick is to not be shy about the amount of kosher salt you use. Fwiw, I always stuff the cavity of a whole bird with either an onion and herbs/spices, or with an apple and always have root vegetables at the bottom of the pan.
 
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