Just wow

I wouldn't want the sommelier to make a decision as to the condition of the wine brought in.

If he's suspicious, I would expect him to at least pour the host a sampling for him to decide.

His handling of the bottle is not diminished very much as a result of a bad bottle; thus, it makes some sense to charge corkage.

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

His handling of the bottle is not diminished very much as a result of a bad bottle; thus, it makes some sense to charge corkage.

. . . . . Pete
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Corkage isn't about handling of the wine. It's about making up for the restaurant's lost profit on a bottle you presumably would otherwise buy off the list. Restaurateurs sometimes try to evade that fact by talking about the cost of washing glassware and breakage, but even so, that was not a factor in this instance.
 
originally posted by Suzanne Camhi:
originally posted by Robert Dentice:
Stunning meal here tonight. Wine list is very cool - you can order any bottle as a 1/2 bottle. The staff is beyond nice and attentive. Playlist is 90s and 2000s hip hop/rap. But the real star is the food. Robert Bohr was extremely welcoming, the somm was psyched about what we ordered and Chef came out to say hello.
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my meal on 6/11 was just meh.
Had the suckling pig and it was reheated and dry with very little crackling, none of it attached to the pig meat.

We were 5 people and brought 5 bottles corkage was $35.00 per bottle. Robert tasted all bottles and poured a damaged bottle 85 Cerreto Bricco. it was undrinkable and we paid corkage on that too.

loved the Zalto stems and decanters but not enough to go back.
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Wow! Corkage on flawed bottle? What a douche.
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Doesn't the venue do as much work with a customer's bottle whether it is received as damaged or otherwise?

It's not the venue's fault the bottle was already damaged.

. . . . . Pete
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I reiterate: what a douche. You want $35 to open a bottle? Such. Labor. Groan.
 
I once sent a glass of 21 Palmer back to the kitchen via the somm (not this establishment). They charged corkage anyway. So, you never know.
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

I wouldn't want the sommelier to make a decision as to the condition of the wine brought in.

If he's suspicious, I would expect him to at least pour the host a sampling for him to decide.

His handling of the bottle is not diminished very much as a result of a bad bottle; thus, it makes some sense to charge corkage.

. . . . . Pete
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With all due respect: what the fuck is wrong with you? Do you understand what corkage is about? You seem like a very civil and kind person, but google opportunity cost and then reconsider corkage. Then visit Jermy Parzen's blog dobianchi.com and search corkage. Corkage is a courtesy, and should be treated as such by both parties. For instance: I brought a bottle of 1970 Produttori del Barbaresco 1970 Pora Riserva to dinner @ Hearth on Tuesday. I ordered plenty of wine off the list and sent half of the bottle to be tasted by staff since they were kind enough to allow me to bring it. Spend money AND share. Everybody wins. Each party gains by reciprocity and respect. Charging corkage for off bottle is straight up douchebaggery. Bring bottle that's on list or some sort of industrial swill is same. You got a special bottle? Share that fucker! Maitre'd, chef, busboy? Whatever! Show some class.
 
But I would reiterate that charging corkage on a bad bottle that isn't consumed is outside the rules as I understand them. I would never go back to a place that did that to me, unless it were someplace that did not share a common cultural understanding.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
But I would reiterate that charging corkage on a bad bottle that isn't consumed is outside the rules as I understand them. I would never go back to a place that did that to me, unless it were someplace that did not share a common cultural understanding.
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other bottles brought in were an 99 Soldera Riserva, 85 Produttori Pora, 95 Giacosa Villero and a modern 04 Brunello. We asked them to please take a taste of all. BTW the Soldera was the WOTN.
 
Sorry but (at least to me) a key fact is unclear: did he know the wine was flawed and charge corkage anyway, or did he just miss the fact that it was flawed? If it's the latter, it might not reflect well on him as a sommelier but it certainly doesn't make him a douchebag.
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

I wouldn't want the sommelier to make a decision as to the condition of the wine brought in.

If he's suspicious, I would expect him to at least pour the host a sampling for him to decide.

His handling of the bottle is not diminished very much as a result of a bad bottle; thus, it makes some sense to charge corkage.

. . . . . Pete
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It does not make any sense to charge corkage on any bottle that a customer doesn't drink, no matter the reason . . . unless, of course, you are a greedy fool and wish to alienate customers. It is a shocking lack of hospitality. I would not come back to that establishment no matter how good the food might be.

As to the condition of the wine, I remember an occasion that the wine guy from another restaurant came into the place where I worked. He brought an old magnum of Tempier Migoua. Alas, the bottle was badly corked. He sniffed it and told me to "pour it anyway," perhaps thinking that his guests wouldn't know the difference. I didn't charge corkage, but then again we didn't charge anyone ITB corkage. That wasn't necessarily reciprocated but we still did it. Taking the high road was always the right road.
 
originally posted by mark e:

...I remember an occasion that the wine guy from another restaurant came into the place where I worked. He brought an old magnum of Tempier Migoua. Alas, the bottle was badly corked. He sniffed it and told me to "pour it anyway," perhaps thinking that his guests wouldn't know the difference.
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I was at a big all-afternoon tasting a few months ago. We had a BYO dinner after, all in a place with a very ambitious and serious wine program. The head somm was pouring corked 1996 Dom Perignon around at the beginning of the dinner. I beat him up for it, he said, "The guy who brought it said it was fine, to pour it." I said, "You and I both know he's wrong, why make everyone find out for themselves?"
 
originally posted by SFJoe:

I was at a big all-afternoon tasting a few months ago. We had a BYO dinner after, all in a place with a very ambitious and serious wine program. The head somm was pouring corked 1996 Dom Perignon around at the beginning of the dinner. I beat him up for it, he said, "The guy who brought it said it was fine, to pour it." I said, "You and I both know he's wrong, why make everyone find out for themselves?"
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That's a tough call for the head somm: do I alienate the guy who brought it by refusing a direct request and intimate that I know better than him, or do I knowingly pour a corked wine to a number of unsuspecting schnooks? In his shoes, I'd probably have offered to pour it with a warning to all that it was (IMHO) corked.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
That's a tough call for the head somm:
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when SFJoe tells you not to add substance X to a beaker, it's not a tough call to make at all

I thought you'd know, of all people!
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by SFJoe:

I was at a big all-afternoon tasting a few months ago. We had a BYO dinner after, all in a place with a very ambitious and serious wine program. The head somm was pouring corked 1996 Dom Perignon around at the beginning of the dinner. I beat him up for it, he said, "The guy who brought it said it was fine, to pour it." I said, "You and I both know he's wrong, why make everyone find out for themselves?"
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That's a tough call for the head somm: do I alienate the guy who brought it by refusing a direct request and intimate that I know better than him, or do I knowingly pour a corked wine to a number of unsuspecting schnooks? In his shoes, I'd probably have offered to pour it with a warning to all that it was (IMHO) corked.

Mark Lipton
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That almost exactly what I did, except there was no way I was going to inform anyone else that it was corked while he was extolling the wine's virtues to his guests.
 
originally posted by mark e:

That almost exactly what I did, except there was no way I was going to inform anyone else that it was corked while he was extolling the wine's virtues to his guests.
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Yeesh!

Mark Lipton
 
I imagine if you bring a '96 DP to a gathering, there's a fair amount of denial to get through when it turns up corked. Unlike folks here, most service people don't enjoy the luxury of telling their guests to fuck off.
 
Man I like a WD pile on! Better than a 18 wheeler wreck on 1/9 on the way to Elizabeth! And that's pretty cool!

P.S. I agree, corkage on a flawed bottle is in poor taste.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by SFJoe:

I was at a big all-afternoon tasting a few months ago. We had a BYO dinner after, all in a place with a very ambitious and serious wine program. The head somm was pouring corked 1996 Dom Perignon around at the beginning of the dinner. I beat him up for it, he said, "The guy who brought it said it was fine, to pour it." I said, "You and I both know he's wrong, why make everyone find out for themselves?"
Click to expand...

That's a tough call for the head somm: do I alienate the guy who brought it by refusing a direct request and intimate that I know better than him, or do I knowingly pour a corked wine to a number of unsuspecting schnooks? In his shoes, I'd probably have offered to pour it with a warning to all that it was (IMHO) corked.

Mark Lipton
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That almost exactly what I did, except there was no way I was going to inform anyone else that it was corked while he was extolling the wine's virtues to his guests.
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Well if this guy had been paying my check, I would have had a totally different view of the matter. But as it happens, we were all independent agents, so I was able to take my own position about the one bottle the guy had brought. Hell, it was corked, you couldn't hold it against him, he hadn't had a chance to try it.

As it happens, I was able to pre-decant my first contribution, it was quite tasty. My second bottle (for a friend) was totally at risk, and I wouldn't have wanted to see it in my glass or anyone else's if it had been corked.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by SFJoe:

I was at a big all-afternoon tasting a few months ago. We had a BYO dinner after, all in a place with a very ambitious and serious wine program. The head somm was pouring corked 1996 Dom Perignon around at the beginning of the dinner. I beat him up for it, he said, "The guy who brought it said it was fine, to pour it." I said, "You and I both know he's wrong, why make everyone find out for themselves?"
Click to expand...

That's a tough call for the head somm: do I alienate the guy who brought it by refusing a direct request and intimate that I know better than him, or do I knowingly pour a corked wine to a number of unsuspecting schnooks? In his shoes, I'd probably have offered to pour it with a warning to all that it was (IMHO) corked.

Mark Lipton
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Maybe a discreet whisper into the ear of the person who brought the corked wine, suggesting that the wine is corked and asking if he/she wants the wine to be poured, anyway?

I have to say, one of my main problems with sommeliers isn't their refusing to pour corked wine, but failing/refusing to recognize a wine that is corked.
 
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