Weekend Wines

[Gregg G]

2011 Domaine de l'Aujardière (Eric Chevalier) Muscadet-Côtes de Grandlieu Sur Lie
Typical Muscadet with all the right stuff. Not in the top tier but perfectly good with a lunch of grilled shrimp, fava beans and baby potatoes.

2010 Marcel Lapierre Morgon
Very good vintage for Lapierre. Tart cranberry, crunchy fruit with some animal/ferrel notes. Beautiful expression of Morgon. With various charcuterie. Glad to have a few more.

2007 Louis Jadot Pernand-Vergelesses 1er Cru En Caradeux Clos de la Croix de Pierre
Tight and coiled. Seems a bit sluggish. Fruit is reticent with some cherry notes. Acidity spikes in the mid palate and some tannin clamp down on the finish. Needs time.

2008 Rivers-Marie Chardonnay B. Thieriot Vineyard
Wow! This is a fantastic wine. Not as opulent as other RM Chards. Shows wonderful complex citrus, notably lemon custard. Really has a nice full mid palate with excellent length. I can't help but think of Meursault. Will probably drink my last bottle within a year or 2.

1999 Azienda Agricola Sant'Elena Ros Di Rol
Decanting with a screen is necessary due to excessive sediment. Good wine showing its age. Leather, cassis, tea, and tobacco notes. Decent length but not the most memorable wine. Ready to drink. Served with a mixed grill of chicken & quail (J. Waxman's asian marinade) and lamb chops.

2008 Domaine du Pégaü Ch“teauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Réservée
Wow, this is really nice stuff. It's young but already shows plenty of complexity. Reminds me of '99 with less funk. One can't help but notice the intensity and palate persistence. Really a Pegau I adore. Ready to drink, I would be very surprised should this wine shut down. First of a 6-pack. Should have bought a case. Served with a mixed grill of chicken & quail (J. Waxman's asian marinade) and lamb chops.

 

[drssouth]

originally posted by Gregg G:
Weekend Wines2011 Domaine de l'Aujardière (Eric Chevalier) Muscadet-Côtes de Grandlieu Sur Lie
Typical Muscadet with all the right stuff. Not in the top tier but perfectly good with a lunch of grilled shrimp, lava beans and baby potatoes.

2010 Marcel Lapierre Morgon
Very good vintage for Lapierre. Tart cranberry, crunchy fruit with some animal/ferrel notes. Beautiful expression of Morgon. With various charcuterie. Glad to have a few more.

2007 Louis Jadot Pernand-Vergelesses 1er Cru En Caradeux Clos de la Croix de Pierre
Tight and coiled. Seems a bit sluggish. Fruit is reticent with some cherry notes. Acidity spikes in the mid palate and some tannin clamp down on the finish. Needs time.

2008 Rivers-Marie Chardonnay B. Thieriot Vineyard
Wow! This is a fantastic wine. Not as opulent as other RM Chards. Shows wonderful complex citrus, notably lemon custard. Really has a nice full mid palate with excellent length. I can't help but think of Meursault. Will probably drink my last bottle within a year or 2.

1999 Azienda Agricola Sant'Elena Ros Di Rol
Decanting with a screen is necessary due to excessive sediment. Good wine showing its age. Leather, cassis, tea, and tobacco notes. Decent length but not the most memorable wine. Ready to drink. Served with a mixed grill of chicken & quail (J. Waxman's asian marinade) and lamb chops.

2008 Domaine du Pégaü Ch“teauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Réservée
Wow, this is really nice stuff. It's young but already shows plenty of complexity. Reminds me of '99 with less funk. One can't help but notice the intensity and palate persistence. Really a Pegau I adore. Ready to drink, I would be very surprised should this wine shut down. First of a 6-pack. Should have bought a case. Served with a mixed grill of chicken & quail (J. Waxman's asian marinade) and lamb chops.

A few months ago they were"giving away" the '08 Pegau at $28

 

[Gregg G]

Yeah, my record shows I paid $25 from PC, but that was over a year ago. Such an easy purchase.

 

[Lou Kessler]

As a vintage 08 contained a great many diluted bottles of wine with some exceptions. So overall the bad press and rep was hung on all wines from the Rhone area that year in spite of some decent juice finding its way into the market.
I've tasted some Gonon from 08 that was decent.

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Gregg G:
...lava beans...

Does this need to be cooked by 1970's bubble-lamps?

2008 Domaine du Pégaü Ch“teauneuf-du-Pape Cuvée Réservée
...Reminds me of '99 with less funk...

My take was like a 99 with MORE funk. You seem to have had better luck with these than me. There is a lot of brett variation with these.

 

[Gregg G]

originally posted by MarkS:

My take was like a 99 with MORE funk. You seem to have had better luck with these than me. There is a lot of brett variation with these.

This is the 4th bottle I've had, all from PC I believe, and none were overly bretty or greater than what I remember of '99. Obviously, YMMV. I do wonder though, in years were the fruit isn't as ripe ('98, '00. '01), if this barnyard element is less obscured by the fruit & structure?

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Gregg G:

originally posted by MarkS:

My take was like a 99 with MORE funk. You seem to have had better luck with these than me. There is a lot of brett variation with these.

This is the 4th bottle I've had, all from PC I believe, and none were overly bretty or greater than what I remember of '99. Obviously, YMMV. I do wonder though, in years were the fruit isn't as ripe ('98, '00. '01), if this barnyard element is less obscured by the fruit & structure?

Dunno, but I *do* know the 2008 vintage suffered severe brett invasion, so I feel it is a caretaking issue and has nothing to do with the fruit. I love Pegau when its on and can tolerate a little bit of brett, but not when it blooms.

 

[Gregg G]

originally posted by MarkS:

originally posted by Gregg G:

originally posted by MarkS:

My take was like a 99 with MORE funk. You seem to have had better luck with these than me. There is a lot of brett variation with these.

This is the 4th bottle I've had, all from PC I believe, and none were overly bretty or greater than what I remember of '99. Obviously, YMMV. I do wonder though, in years were the fruit isn't as ripe ('98, '00. '01), if this barnyard element is less obscured by the fruit & structure?

Dunno, but I *do* know the 2008 vintage suffered severe brett invasion, so I feel it is a caretaking issue and has nothing to do with the fruit. I love Pegau when its on and can tolerate a little bit of brett, but not when it blooms.

Could you elaborate a bit more on this invasion?

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Gregg G:

originally posted by MarkS:

originally posted by Gregg G:

originally posted by MarkS:

My take was like a 99 with MORE funk. You seem to have had better luck with these than me. There is a lot of brett variation with these.

This is the 4th bottle I've had, all from PC I believe, and none were overly bretty or greater than what I remember of '99. Obviously, YMMV. I do wonder though, in years were the fruit isn't as ripe ('98, '00. '01), if this barnyard element is less obscured by the fruit & structure?

Dunno, but I *do* know the 2008 vintage suffered severe brett invasion, so I feel it is a caretaking issue and has nothing to do with the fruit. I love Pegau when its on and can tolerate a little bit of brett, but not when it blooms.

Could you elaborate a bit more on this invasion?

Read some other boards, there is a long running topic talking about this issue.

 

[SFJoe]

I don't follow Pegau regularly, but less ripe vintages of most wines will tend towards lower pH and a less hospitable environment for Brett.

A matter of degree and specifics, of course, but the general trend is strong.

 

[Gregg G]

originally posted by MarkS:

originally posted by Gregg G:

originally posted by MarkS:

originally posted by Gregg G:

originally posted by MarkS:

My take was like a 99 with MORE funk. You seem to have had better luck with these than me. There is a lot of brett variation with these.

This is the 4th bottle I've had, all from PC I believe, and none were overly bretty or greater than what I remember of '99. Obviously, YMMV. I do wonder though, in years were the fruit isn't as ripe ('98, '00. '01), if this barnyard element is less obscured by the fruit & structure?

Dunno, but I *do* know the 2008 vintage suffered severe brett invasion, so I feel it is a caretaking issue and has nothing to do with the fruit. I love Pegau when its on and can tolerate a little bit of brett, but not when it blooms.

Could you elaborate a bit more on this invasion?

Read some other boards, there is a long running topic talking about this issue.

I'm sorry, but if your going to make claims, please don't refer me to other boards.

 

[Gregg G]

originally posted by SFJoe:
I don't follow Pegau regularly, but less ripe vintages of most wines will tend towards lower pH and a less hospitable environment for Brett.

A matter of degree and specifics, of course, but the general trend is strong.

This makes sense.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Although everybody talks as if 2008 were a less alcoholic year in the Rhone, the difference even from 07 wasn't that large, probably not enough to reduce brett. I'll bet the Pegaus are still listed at 14.5 or 15. The difference in 08 was that the ripeness wasn't as overwhelming and in successful wines like Charvin and Pegau and a few others the wine can deliver some more complexity. I like the 99 Pegau a lot, just like I liked the 94. I've only had one bottle of the 08 so far but it seemed cut from the same cloth.

With regard to brett and Pegau, I think it's always there ready to bloom and a lot depends on what that bottle saw. Even bottles from the same store can have seen different treatment before it gets to you. And numbers of people have recorded differences in bottles from the same case. The only sure cure is to be completely brett tolerant--which I pretty much am.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

I just reread what Joe said and it was about ripeness and not alcohol affecting brett. Assuming he means by ripeness the impression one gets on the palate and not the ripeness of which alcohol is a causal consequence,then 08 should have produced less brett, I guess.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I just reread what Joe said and it was about ripeness and not alcohol affecting brett. Assuming he means by ripeness the impression one gets on the palate and not the ripeness of which alcohol is a causal consequence,then 08 should have produced less brett, I guess.

pH is the metric, I believe. Brett seems to do pretty well in various highly alcoholic wines.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I just reread what Joe said and it was about ripeness and not alcohol affecting brett. Assuming he means by ripeness the impression one gets on the palate and not the ripeness of which alcohol is a causal consequence,then 08 should have produced less brett, I guess.

pH is the metric, I believe. Brett seems to do pretty well in various highly alcoholic wines.

Do pH measurements reliably correspond to the acidic, lively, goopy scale that I think of or is the correlation only a rough one, by which I mean not that you can't figure out what I might mean by lively or goopy but that for instance 08 CdP would reliably have less pH than 07 CdP that corresponded to the ripeness factor of the 07s.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

Do pH measurements reliably correspond to the acidic, lively, goopy scale that I think of or is the correlation only a rough one, by which I mean not that you can't figure out what I might mean by lively or goopy but that for instance 08 CdP would reliably have less pH than 07 CdP that corresponded to the ripeness factor of the 07s.

Not sure I totally follow you here. pH is important for microbiology but a weaker guide to organoleptic perception. TA and so on are more relevant for taste, as we have discussed on other occasions.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

Do pH measurements reliably correspond to the acidic, lively, goopy scale that I think of or is the correlation only a rough one, by which I mean not that you can't figure out what I might mean by lively or goopy but that for instance 08 CdP would reliably have less pH than 07 CdP that corresponded to the ripeness factor of the 07s.

Not sure I totally follow you here. pH is important for microbiology but a weaker guide to organoleptic perception. TA and so on are more relevant for taste, as we have discussed on other occasions.

This gets part of the way there. My sense and most other people's sense of ripeness difference between 08 and 07 in CdP is organoleptic or what we lay people call taste sensation. So it's not clear from the reputations of the vintages what that would mean for the pH levels in say 08 Pegau and what that would tell us about brett.

 

[SFJoe]

OTBE, riper grapes give higher pH wine.

But OT often don't BE.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by SFJoe:
OTBE, riper grapes give higher pH wine.

But OT often don't BE.

Are there theories about what other measurable physical elements lead to the sensation affect of ripeness? Is a replicator theoretically conceivable? Or are we too primitive in our knowledge yet to speculate?