What did you drink tonight?

originally posted by Michael Lewis:
So, on the subject of 02 Huet Petillant Reserve. I bought one case, in two batches of six bottles apiece, about a year apart, from two different NYC retailers I trust. The first six bottles were purchased in late 2011. The second six bottles in late 2012. Am I right in assuming that the first six, which I have just recently finished consuming (and without a single instance of premox or tiredness), were from the first bottling, and the second six, which I have not yet begun to consume, are from the second bottling? If so, shit.
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I think we're all talking about the first two regular bottlings. I hadn't heard of more than one version of the reserve (which doesn't mean it doesn't exist).
 
originally posted by VLM:
Arnot-Roberts Watson reminds me of a good St. Aubin from Lamy, maybe.
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That's pretty apt.

After this intriguing chitchat between you and Steve about the wine, I seized the occasion to try it. By chance, earlier this week I was sitting at a bar and the people next to me were drinking it. I struck up a conversation. Turns out they were Dutch and were fairly baffled by it as an expression of what they had thought might be California chardonnay of the predictable style. I swapped them a glass of '10 Chaussard Kharaktêr (which, for the record, baffled them still further).

The Arnot-Roberts Watson Ranch (vintage 2012) was pure and lean and bright and, as the Dutchman complained, "sour in the middle." But it didn't have the complexity I wanted to find in it. I liked it, but I'm glad I only had a little, rather than a bottle. It didn't have lots of notes. But the notes were harmonious.
 
originally posted by VLM:

Kenny Likitprakong was in town, so I had a few chances to taste through most of his wines. I love them and you ought to try them, but to highlight just one that you can't miss, the 2012 Hobo Sceales grenache. The vines from Alexander Valley are almost 100 years old and are dry farmed organically. Kenny used about 70% whole cluster in 2012. Where the 2011 was gentle spice and fruit, this is earthier, deeper and more brooding, but without sacrificing a lightness of being, for lack of a better phrase. No jamminess, no heaviness. This is the real fucking deal.
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Bought a couple bottles of this based on the Monkey's glowing recommendation and a reasonable price point ($25, at K&L). Hadn't bought a California Grenache in many years.
 
I suppose this is where I tell people that drinking decade-old sparkling Vouvray expecting fruit vibrancy or aged complexity is something of a fool's errand? Why not drink the 2007 now if you thirst for freshness? Or any of the brilliant array from the '60s if you seek mature Chenin?
 
You don't find it worrying that the '02 tastes like the '64 right now? 'Cause, like, what to drink in 40 years for that "mature Chenin" spot?
 
Byrrh, soda water, blood orange slice, rocks. christ, this is good. Byrrh is a quinquina aperitf made from fortified wine. i think.

2011 de moor st bris, a bottle this summer was heavenly. this one, not so much. a bit of nail polish on the nose. an odd savory meat like impression initially, tightens up on the finish. weird. cork up and see hwat happens tomorrow.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
You don't find it worrying that the '02 tastes like the '64 right now? 'Cause, like, what to drink in 40 years for that "mature Chenin" spot?
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The 2042, or something like that. Heard it's the vintage of the century.

I overlooked the fact that the discussion was focused on the regular Petillant, and for the record, I do not know that there were two bottlings of the Reserve. But I spent that year in between my purchases searching unsuccessfully for more of the Reserve after the first bottle I tasted had been so amazing. So there has to be some explanation for its magical reappearance. Perhaps more of the first bottling was shipped over to this side of the ocean, or the distributor had not initially distributed all there was to distribute. Or perhaps there was more than one bottling. Hopefully someone here knows.

In any case, I have heard reports of premox in the Reserve, as well.
 
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
You don't find it worrying that the '02 tastes like the '64 right now? 'Cause, like, what to drink in 40 years for that "mature Chenin" spot?
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The 2042, or something like that. Heard it's the vintage of the century.
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Ah, I see what you've done, there.

So: new philosophical discuss: is "mature Chenin" OK if it's faux-mature chenin that's really just premoxed?

Hall of mirrors.

“Americans may have no identity, but they do have wonderful teeth.” -Jean Baudrillard, America (1986)
 
originally posted by Yixin:
I suppose this is where I tell people that drinking decade-old sparkling Vouvray expecting fruit vibrancy or aged complexity is something of a fool's errand? Why not drink the 2007 now if you thirst for freshness? Or any of the brilliant array from the '60s if you seek mature Chenin?
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1995 is really good now, and you'd expect a longer curve with 2002
 
forgot to mention

Pinguet had been hanging out with Selosse way too much prior to conception of 02 sparklers

so all bets are off
 
originally posted by Yixin:
I suppose this is where I tell people that drinking decade-old sparkling Vouvray expecting fruit vibrancy or aged complexity is something of a fool's errand? Why not drink the 2007 now if you thirst for freshness? Or any of the brilliant array from the '60s if you seek mature Chenin?
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Really? I mean, I'm not looking for the exuberant fruit of youth or anything, but I don't think it's too much to ask of a 10 yo sparkling chenin to have some verve and vitality still. I think those transition points (which in my mind I mistakenly put at about 10 years on this) are often the sweet spots, where youth meets the grace of a bit of age. I am thrilled with where a lot of the 02 Champagnes are right now for example, not that I am comparing the two. Its not a complaint, I loved the wine enough on release that it was my first case purchase. I'm just glad I couldn't keep my hands off of them early because, at least with the lot I bought, I think their best days are behind them. They don't strike me as being in an awkward phase, the last couple have seemed pretty worn out.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Yixin:
I suppose this is where I tell people that drinking decade-old sparkling Vouvray expecting fruit vibrancy or aged complexity is something of a fool's errand? Why not drink the 2007 now if you thirst for freshness? Or any of the brilliant array from the '60s if you seek mature Chenin?
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1995 is really good now, and you'd expect a longer curve with 2002
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Dude, both tirage and dosage regimes were completely different for the 1995 and 2002.

And I hesitate to do this (as I don't want to point fingers), but I have tasted/drunk more than 100 bottles of the 2002 Huet Pétillant Réserve over the last 18 months, both heat-damaged and not, and every single note suggesting premature oxidation reads like a note of one of the heat-damanged bottles I've had.

Look, any of you are welcome in Singapore and we'll taste the bottles side-by-side, blind.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
I hesitate to do this (as I don't want to point fingers), but I have tasted/drunk more than 100 bottles of the 2002 Huet Pétillant Réserve over the last 18 months, both heat-damaged and not, and every single note suggesting premature oxidation reads like a note of one of the heat-damanged bottles I've had.
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Huh. That's interesting.

So you'd put down the 2002 pétillant premox to something other than the Big Mysterious Bad Thing that is making premox in white Burgundy, Alsace, and Loire?

I am not being snarky, because my sample size is far smaller than yours (though I have a sample, on both continents).
 
originally posted by Brian C:
originally posted by Yixin:
I suppose this is where I tell people that drinking decade-old sparkling Vouvray expecting fruit vibrancy or aged complexity is something of a fool's errand? Why not drink the 2007 now if you thirst for freshness? Or any of the brilliant array from the '60s if you seek mature Chenin?
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Really? I mean, I'm not looking for the exuberant fruit of youth or anything, but I don't think it's too much to ask of a 10 yo sparkling chenin to have some verve and vitality still. I think those transition points (which in my mind I mistakenly put at about 10 years on this) are often the sweet spots, where youth meets the grace of a bit of age. I am thrilled with where a lot of the 02 Champagnes are right now for example, not that I am comparing the two. Its not a complaint, I loved the wine enough on release that it was my first case purchase. I'm just glad I couldn't keep my hands off of them early because, at least with the lot I bought, I think their best days are behind them. They don't strike me as being in an awkward phase, the last couple have seemed pretty worn out.
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Chenin Blanc is a funny beast. Clay-chalk Chenin less so than schist, but it still does awkward things which nobody (okay, nobody I know) understands. Have I had Chenin Blanc that seems past it, and then five, ten, fifteen years later a bottle from the same case surprises me? Heck yes. And while Vouvray does not seem to go through as angry or as long a shut-down phase as e.g. Savennières (c.f. earlier comment, since I just retasted a very, very grumpy R-a-M last week), I don't usually like them between 7-15 years of age. They often show flat, and if handling has been less than ideal, especially with the newer, less-sulfured wines, the impact is quite obvious.
 
I suppose this is where I tell people that drinking decade-old sparkling Vouvray expecting fruit vibrancy or aged complexity is something of a fool's errand?
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Dude, both tirage and dosage regimes were completely different for the 1995 and 2002.
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Does this mean we can amend the fool's errand remark with something about tirage and dosage? Dude, make up your mind.

And I hesitate to do this (as I don't want to point fingers), but I have tasted/drunk more than 100 bottles of the 2002 Huet Pétillant Réserve over the last 18 months, both heat-damaged and not, and every single note suggesting premature oxidation reads like a note of one of the heat-damanged bottles I've had.

Look, any of you are welcome in Singapore and we'll taste the bottles side-by-side, blind.
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no argument here; I've only really loved the early release of the regular
 
.sasha, I agree about your last. The first release of 2002 pétillant regular remains in my memory the one, fine and straight and fucking delicious (and lacking the awkward elbows of the 2007, for instance).

Second, a bit too candied.

Réserve, a bit too-too-too. Burnished, blowsy, this kind of thing.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by Brian C:
originally posted by Yixin:
I suppose this is where I tell people that drinking decade-old sparkling Vouvray expecting fruit vibrancy or aged complexity is something of a fool's errand? Why not drink the 2007 now if you thirst for freshness? Or any of the brilliant array from the '60s if you seek mature Chenin?
Click to expand...
Really? I mean, I'm not looking for the exuberant fruit of youth or anything, but I don't think it's too much to ask of a 10 yo sparkling chenin to have some verve and vitality still. I think those transition points (which in my mind I mistakenly put at about 10 years on this) are often the sweet spots, where youth meets the grace of a bit of age. I am thrilled with where a lot of the 02 Champagnes are right now for example, not that I am comparing the two. Its not a complaint, I loved the wine enough on release that it was my first case purchase. I'm just glad I couldn't keep my hands off of them early because, at least with the lot I bought, I think their best days are behind them. They don't strike me as being in an awkward phase, the last couple have seemed pretty worn out.
Click to expand...

Chenin Blanc is a funny beast. Clay-chalk Chenin less so than schist, but it still does awkward things which nobody (okay, nobody I know) understands. Have I had Chenin Blanc that seems past it, and then five, ten, fifteen years later a bottle from the same case surprises me? Heck yes. And while Vouvray does not seem to go through as angry or as long a shut-down phase as e.g. Savennières (c.f. earlier comment, since I just retasted a very, very grumpy R-a-M last week), I don't usually like them between 7-15 years of age. They often show flat, and if handling has been less than ideal, especially with the newer, less-sulfured wines, the impact is quite obvious.
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If your in the PNW in ten years drop me a line and I'll pull my last bottle to share with you. In the interest of science I'll forget its there for a while. At the rate you're going you should be able to relate it to a statistically significant data set!
 
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