Bernard Gripa St. Joseph 'Le Berceau' 2005

Thought of this thread last night when we had us a 2000 Henri Gouges NSG Les Chenes Carteaux that failed to take off because of the termitent smell and taste of vanilla. Hard to imagine that even a 1er cru with this name was heavily oaked by a producer with a traditional reputation, and that said oak has failed to dissipate (or, as they say, integrate) after so long, so maybe this fruit, too, sweated vanilla during its adolescence.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Thought of this thread last night when we had us a 2000 Henri Gouges NSG Les Chenes Carteaux that failed to take off because of the termitent smell and taste of vanilla. Hard to imagine that even a 1er cru with this name was heavily oaked by a producer with a traditional reputation, and that said oak has failed to dissipate (or, as they say, integrate) after so long, so maybe this fruit, too, sweated vanilla during its adolescence.
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what a coincidence - this thread made me recall my most infamous misdiagnose of oaky behavior, for which I received an endless amount of well deserved shit from the powers that be; it was a 2000 Gouges Les Saint Georges popped by SFJoe in the cellar, some time around 2004.

Oswaldo, in other words, to borrow from your own arsenal:

No.
 
I think everyone here has missed the bigger point. Joe is a super dumbass for buying those wines.

Honestly, Texier and Allemand take care of my syrah needs (well, with a few domestic thrown in). He buys Gonon, why would he need to buy anything else? How much fucking syrah can one man drink?

A moment of lunacy for which he was duly punished.
 
I said that I'd been Rimmermanned, meaning suckered by a plausible mailer into buying something that wasn't so great, and wasn't really as described. I am newly chastened. So, yes.

Allemand has more or less doubled in price lately, no? It is moving into the category of special occasion wines.

Texier continues to be underpaid for his excellent work.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I said that I'd been Rimmermanned, meaning suckered by a plausible mailer into buying something that wasn't so great, and wasn't really as described. I am newly chastened. So, yes.

Allemand has more or less doubled in price lately, no? It is moving into the category of special occasion wines.

Texier continues to be underpaid for his excellent work.
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Honestly, do you really expect something "new" to come along and really surprise you?

I'm restricted with my Allemand purchases, but buy a case of the Pergaud wines and some Cote-Rotie and that does the trick.

Eric gets paid fine for what he terms are "villages" wines. His word, not mine. If Allemand are Grand Cru, then that all makes sense. In this case, I'd posit that they are villages wines in the same vein as Mugneret-Gibourg Vosne.
 
originally posted by VLM:

Honestly, do you really expect something "new" to come along and really surprise you?
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Sure. There are a lot of people out there making wine, I don't go to many trade tastings like you ITB mavens, I am not at all comprehensive.

Maybe I should expect fewer in the Rhone, but still.

Or maybe I'm just a sucker.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Sucka!
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I cries a little tear.

sucker.jpg
 
originally posted by VLM:

Honestly, do you really expect something "new" to come along and really surprise you?
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Tell that to Lyle and the boys at SM. I probably get an offer a week touting a new young vigneron in the N Rhone. Will they be on a par with Eric or Allemand? That'll take me years to establish, but the answer's likely no for the nonce. But with hot new producers in the Beaujolais and Burgundy, why not the Rhone, too?

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by VLM:

Honestly, do you really expect something "new" to come along and really surprise you?
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Tell that to Lyle and the boys at SM. I probably get an offer a week touting a new young vigneron in the N Rhone. Will they be on a par with Eric or Allemand? That'll take me years to establish, but the answer's likely no for the nonce. But with hot new producers in the Beaujolais and Burgundy, why not the Rhone, too?

Mark Lipton
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There aren't. Not to say that there aren't emerging producers, but I haven't had anything to dislodge my pantheon. But that's a personal thing about me and how I buy and consume wine (which, incidentally, is why I would never fall for the RWC Gripa gambit).

I've had stuff from areas new to me that made me take notice, however.
 
At risk of letting my rube light shine, I enjoyed the St. Perays sold to me by a certain Tribeca wine schnookery. Liked 'em young and bought deep-ish. So there!
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
No to the vanilla being from oak or no to the vanilla being from the pinot?
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How do you know it wasn't an outright Callahanism?

As anecdotal background, 2000s pose a bit of conundrum. If they are open or reasonably mature, I can think of little else in the dungeons these days that would give as much pleasure. If they are "serious" and insufficiently developed, they are about as interesting as the networks on a Sunday morning. I don't know why there is such a drastic split. 2000s from Gouges have been a poster child for me; the only thing emerging from most of the bottles is a middle finger. It looks French.

But much more to the point, you can argue all you want with Claude about significant figures in percentage of new oak quotes, but I have little doubt he is correct about exaggerated influence of oak aromas and flavors in a reduced pinot noir. And for the purposes of this discussion, I am much more interested in a scenario in which there is some new oak (10-25%) that combines to get a very unfavorable impression, at the wrong time. Hell, I've had 8 year old oaky Drouhin (~20% NFO) - wines that were beautifully balanced earlier, and then later as well. I don't recall the numbers for Gouges in 2000 ( need to find notes ), but I assure you they were not among the parties that offended. Unless you are looking for reduced pinot noir, of course.
 
Gracias for the insight. I neglected to mention was that it was quite tannic. So, if reduction exaggerates oak aromas and flavors, but doesn't create the illusion of tannins, their significant presence, in a presumably not extensively macerated pinot, might point the middle finger at excessive NFO after all.
 
I haven't opened a 2000 Gouges in a while (what's the rush, I could just hit my thumb with a hammer instead), but I don't recall a lot of classic reduction notes--more mute than reduced in my distant memory.
 
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