Jay Miller
Jay Miller
Yes, but he died 40 years ago. I don't hold a company responsible for something done by a long dead founder. Buying Taittinger wines doesn't benefit him in any way.
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Wine and Politics
- Thread starter MLipton
- Start date
Yes, but he died 40 years ago. I don't hold a company responsible for something done by a long dead founder. Buying Taittinger wines doesn't benefit him in any way.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
First of all, the FN has softened itself to a protest against immigration policies and radical Islamism and downplays the old man's anti-semitic right wing post WWII revanchism. But even at that, it's a party whose strength is racism (just anti-North African now). It has a populist, for white's only, support for left labor and social policies. But nobody really takes that seriously. The FN, unlike the tea party, is not dedicated to failed and stupid policies. It is dedicated still to a white France and its support, for better or worse,is that. Lot's of decent people, in the wake of Charlie Hebdo and other islamist attacks in Europe, and indeed the growing anti-semitism of the North African population, support FN as a response. They are deluded. I don't necessarily think I should boycott them. Some of them are my neighbors and they are decent human beings. But I don't think I have to believe or act like the FN isn't still a racist party.
I like Cliff's resistance to Taitinger as quaint, but it is too far back. Too many grandchildren in France and Germany would have to dispossess themselves of property in a way that might call for entire states in the US to give themselves over to Native American territory in satisfaction of treaties still in effect, for me really to go that far. But history is always instructive. Really the issue is never who owned what or who did what to who but what are we going to do about it now.
I like Cliff's resistance to Taitinger as quaint, but it is too far back. Too many grandchildren in France and Germany would have to dispossess themselves of property in a way that might call for entire states in the US to give themselves over to Native American territory in satisfaction of treaties still in effect, for me really to go that far. But history is always instructive. Really the issue is never who owned what or who did what to who but what are we going to do about it now.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Actually, no they're not. They'll vote to have people like you and me killed in a second.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Some of them are my neighbors and they are decent human beings.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Actually, no they're not. They'll vote to have people like you and me killed in a second.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Some of them are my neighbors and they are decent human beings.
But he didn't say that he came to that conclusion without a doubt.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Actually, no they're not. They'll vote to have people like you and me killed in a second.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Some of them are my neighbors and they are decent human beings.
But he didn't say that he came to that conclusion without a doubt.
Really my neighbors not only didn't vote to have people like you and me killed when they could have, but some in the older generation risked their lives during the occupation to protect downed American pilots. With regard to Jews, whereas France was one of the worst countries in Europe about cooperating with the German genocide, Provence acted more like Italy, saving numbers of Jews by being completely inept about rounding them up. Whether that was a political choice or not, the numbers are what they are.
It's worth remembering that Provence, which is a hotbed of FN voters now, was a hotbed of French ultra-gauchistes in the 50s through the 80s or 90s. The way people vote in the moment is alas not completely systematic or rational.
Cole Kendall
Cole Kendall
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
It's worth remembering that Provence, which is a hotbed of FN voters now, was a hotbed of French ultra-gauchistes in the 50s through the 80s or 90s. The way people vote in the moment is alas not completely systematic or rational.
And for the record, ultra-gauchistes are not without the occasional faux pas either.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
It's worth remembering that Provence, which is a hotbed of FN voters now, was a hotbed of French ultra-gauchistes in the 50s through the 80s or 90s. The way people vote in the moment is alas not completely systematic or rational.
And for the record, ultra-gauchistes are not without the occasional faux pas either.
Since they so rarely win elections and don't, like communists, just take over, it's hard to tell what they would actually do.