Impressions April 2018

[MLipton]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Inspired by this discussion, I opened a bottle of the 09 Texier St. Julien last night. It was a great wine, but it was only just beginning to be civilized. Better with three or four hours of air. I expect it will be much better in 3-5 years. Keep in mind, that I tend to like wines with more age on them than Nathan does, so, as they say, your mileage may vary.

Thanks, Jonathan. I'm not at all surprised that you prefer your wines older than VLM. I'll take both your views into account going forward.

Mark Lipton

 

[maureen]

originally posted by Jay Miller:
My experience with Barthod has been that any bottle I open is hard as nails and any bottle someone else opens is glorious.

I stopped buying but always hope that a friend will open one for me.

Mostly my experience too altho the 01 charmes was attractive young (2008) and much less so more recentlh (4/14). Frankly, i like her Bourgogne best and for years that is all I have cellared. But people whose palates I respect really like her so keeping my fingers crossed for the little premier cru I own (1999 Veroilles and 05 cras and fuees)

 

[VLM]

originally posted by maureen:

originally posted by Jay Miller:
My experience with Barthod has been that any bottle I open is hard as nails and any bottle someone else opens is glorious.

I stopped buying but always hope that a friend will open one for me.

Mostly my experience too altho the 01 charmes was attractive young (2008) and much less so more recentlh (4/14). Frankly, i like her Bourgogne best and for years that is all I have cellared. But people whose palates I respect really like her so keeping my fingers crossed for the little premier cru I own (1999 Veroilles and 05 cras and fuees)

I've had great bottles but I can't seem to figure out exactly when to open them. It's a little bit embarrassing for a producer who holds such a place in my cellar. The others that are in the same volume I understand a lot better.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Inspired by this discussion, I opened a bottle of the 09 Texier St. Julien last night. It was a great wine, but it was only just beginning to be civilized. Better with three or four hours of air. I expect it will be much better in 3-5 years. Keep in mind, that I tend to like wines with more age on them than Nathan does, so, as they say, your mileage may vary.

Thanks, Jonathan. I'm not at all surprised that you prefer your wines older than VLM. I'll take both your views into account going forward.

Mark Lipton

OK, I think that I've got a bit of an undeserved reputation as someone who only likes young wine. I think I prefer a profile that is a bit younger than many on this bored. I want the structure a bit resolved, but not gone, and I want the fruit sleek with other notes of complexity buffering it. To be fair, I think that I noted that the 2010 was nearing an early drinking phase and I should have noted it with the Brézème (which did get a few hours of air). The 2009s are now 9 years old, so 60% of the way towards the rule of 15. It's the rare wine that manages this when past the 25 year mark.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by VLM:

2015 Domaine de Roally Viré-Clessé Tradition
Must. Stop. Drinking. These.

A little Tripoz in the cellar helps slow down unnecessary carnage. But it won't stop it entirely.

2001 Domaine Robert Chevillon Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Les Cailles
2001 Domaine Robert Chevillon Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Les Saint Georges
Both of these had soaked corks the Cailles has been mine since release but from a grey market source the Les St. Georges I bought from Flatiron from a cellar that they vouch for, but it was also grey market. The wines themselves were both delicious, lovely, resolved Burgundies with soft fruit and earth notes, just not maybe not the wines they could have been. I generally avoid secondary and grey market Burgundy these days.

These are more forward than you'd expect, from better sources as well. The phenomenon is not limited to Chevillon in 2001. Beautiful wines though.

1999 Joseph Drouhin Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
Good and mostly resolved.

Funny because '99 Clos des Mouches a few weeks ago was more along the lines of your '99 Mugneret experience.

With the Fourrier I'm honestly trying to figure out where I am with these wines. They trade at such high $ that I'm tempted to offload but I wanted to make sure that it wouldn't be stupid. Argh.

No comment. Perhaps offline. Politburo is always listening.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Inspired by this discussion, I opened a bottle of the 09 Texier St. Julien last night. It was a great wine, but it was only just beginning to be civilized. Better with three or four hours of air. I expect it will be much better in 3-5 years. Keep in mind, that I tend to like wines with more age on them than Nathan does, so, as they say, your mileage may vary.

Thanks, Jonathan. I'm not at all surprised that you prefer your wines older than VLM. I'll take both your views into account going forward.

Mark Lipton

OK, I think that I've got a bit of an undeserved reputation as someone who only likes young wine. I think I prefer a profile that is a bit younger than many on this bored. I want the structure a bit resolved, but not gone, and I want the fruit sleek with other notes of complexity buffering it. To be fair, I think that I noted that the 2010 was nearing an early drinking phase and I should have noted it with the Brézème (which did get a few hours of air). The 2009s are now 9 years old, so 60% of the way towards the rule of 15. It's the rare wine that manages this when past the 25 year mark.

So, are you not saying that you think this wine more ready to go than I do?

With regard to the rule of 15, I am learning to think of it as a very loose rule of thumb. It's a good one for St. Joseph, probably too early for some of the best Hermitages, a little out of date alas for most Cornas (Verset is gone and I don't know Clape anymore so it may not be out of date for the old names) and variable for Cote Roties. But I do find that the Texier Northern Rhone wines, with the exception of the straight Brezeme, which can be delicious young, do take a little patience.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by VLM:

2015 Domaine de Roally Viré-Clessé Tradition
Must. Stop. Drinking. These.

A little Tripoz in the cellar helps slow down unnecessary carnage. But it won't stop it entirely.

I do need to find something. My strategy is to buy way more than I ever have previously but I'm not sure it's working.

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

2001 Domaine Robert Chevillon Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Les Cailles
2001 Domaine Robert Chevillon Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Les Saint Georges
Both of these had soaked corks the Cailles has been mine since release but from a grey market source the Les St. Georges I bought from Flatiron from a cellar that they vouch for, but it was also grey market. The wines themselves were both delicious, lovely, resolved Burgundies with soft fruit and earth notes, just not maybe not the wines they could have been. I generally avoid secondary and grey market Burgundy these days.

These are more forward than you'd expect, from better sources as well. The phenomenon is not limited to Chevillon in 2001. Beautiful wines though.

Do you have any insight on the Barthod? I've had 2001 Mugneret show well so I thought maybe Barthod would too.

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

1999 Joseph Drouhin Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
Good and mostly resolved.

Funny because '99 Clos des Mouches a few weeks ago was more along the lines of your '99 Mugneret experience.

That is interesting but wouldn't you expect that from Mouches?

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

With the Fourrier I'm honestly trying to figure out where I am with these wines. They trade at such high $ that I'm tempted to offload but I wanted to make sure that it wouldn't be stupid. Argh.

No comment. Perhaps offline. Politburo is always listening.

Yes, one never knows.

And I do realize I've been pretty unresponsive of late, it is no excuse but I have been busy. We need to debrief on this whole crazy season, at the very least break bread the next time I'm in town.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Inspired by this discussion, I opened a bottle of the 09 Texier St. Julien last night. It was a great wine, but it was only just beginning to be civilized. Better with three or four hours of air. I expect it will be much better in 3-5 years. Keep in mind, that I tend to like wines with more age on them than Nathan does, so, as they say, your mileage may vary.

Thanks, Jonathan. I'm not at all surprised that you prefer your wines older than VLM. I'll take both your views into account going forward.

Mark Lipton

OK, I think that I've got a bit of an undeserved reputation as someone who only likes young wine. I think I prefer a profile that is a bit younger than many on this bored. I want the structure a bit resolved, but not gone, and I want the fruit sleek with other notes of complexity buffering it. To be fair, I think that I noted that the 2010 was nearing an early drinking phase and I should have noted it with the Brézème (which did get a few hours of air). The 2009s are now 9 years old, so 60% of the way towards the rule of 15. It's the rare wine that manages this when past the 25 year mark.

So, are you not saying that you think this wine more ready to go than I do?

I do think this was what you were saying that I was saying and that is what I am probably, but not necessarily, saying.

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
With regard to the rule of 15, I am learning to think of it as a very loose rule of thumb. It's a good one for St. Joseph, probably too early for some of the best Hermitages, a little out of date alas for most Cornas (Verset is gone and I don't know Clape anymore so it may not be out of date for the old names) and variable for Cote Roties. But I do find that the Texier Northern Rhone wines, with the exception of the straight Brezeme, which can be delicious young, do take a little patience.

I've always considered it loose and only applicable to "aging" wines. I do agree that the Brézème Pergaud should be thought of in roughly these terms, the St. Julien Pergaud I think is easier earlier.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by VLM:

2015 Domaine de Roally Viré-Clessé Tradition
Must. Stop. Drinking. These.

A little Tripoz in the cellar helps slow down unnecessary carnage. But it won't stop it entirely.

I do need to find something. My strategy is to buy way more than I ever have previously but I'm not sure it's working.

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

2001 Domaine Robert Chevillon Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Les Cailles
2001 Domaine Robert Chevillon Nuits St. Georges 1er Cru Les Saint Georges
Both of these had soaked corks the Cailles has been mine since release but from a grey market source the Les St. Georges I bought from Flatiron from a cellar that they vouch for, but it was also grey market. The wines themselves were both delicious, lovely, resolved Burgundies with soft fruit and earth notes, just not maybe not the wines they could have been. I generally avoid secondary and grey market Burgundy these days.

These are more forward than you'd expect, from better sources as well. The phenomenon is not limited to Chevillon in 2001. Beautiful wines though.

Do you have any insight on the Barthod? I've had 2001 Mugneret show well so I thought maybe Barthod would too.

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

1999 Joseph Drouhin Chambolle-Musigny 1er Cru
Good and mostly resolved.

Funny because '99 Clos des Mouches a few weeks ago was more along the lines of your '99 Mugneret experience.

That is interesting but wouldn't you expect that from Mouches?

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

With the Fourrier I'm honestly trying to figure out where I am with these wines. They trade at such high $ that I'm tempted to offload but I wanted to make sure that it wouldn't be stupid. Argh.

No comment. Perhaps offline. Politburo is always listening.

Yes, one never knows.

And I do realize I've been pretty unresponsive of late, it is no excuse but I have been busy. We need to debrief on this whole crazy season, at the very least break bread the next time I'm in town.

Yes, there’s been a noticeable lack of traffic on the Jeebus footie bored. And speaking of unresponsive, no comment on my statistical observation (such as it is)?

Mark Lipton

 

[Jay Miller]

re Fourrier - I haven't had anything past 2008 but am told that they've gone spoofy some time since then. I don't know if it's true.

 

[maureen]

originally posted by Jay Miller:
re Fourrier - I haven't had anything past 2008 but am told that they've gone spoofy some time since then. I don't know if it's true.

Not true. At least not the domaine wines

 

[Ken Schramm]

Had that '98 Chave a few months back and thought it was the best bottle of Syrah I have ever tasted. Thanks for the note on the '09 Texier Pergaud, too. I have been loathe to open any, but if nine years is approaching enough time, I will have to reconsider.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by maureen:

originally posted by Jay Miller:
re Fourrier - I haven't had anything past 2008 but am told that they've gone spoofy some time since then. I don't know if it's true.

Not true. At least not the domaine wines

My experience jibes with Maureen, but I haven't had any of the negoce stuff or the big boys (CSJ, Griotte).

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Ken Schramm:
Had that '98 Chave a few months back and thought it was the best bottle of Syrah I have ever tasted. Thanks for the note on the '09 Texier Pergaud, too. I have been loathe to open any, but if nine years is approaching enough time, I will have to reconsider.

Hermitage or Saint Joseph?

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Ken Schramm:
Had that '98 Chave a few months back and thought it was the best bottle of Syrah I have ever tasted. Thanks for the note on the '09 Texier Pergaud, too. I have been loathe to open any, but if nine years is approaching enough time, I will have to reconsider.

Yeah, that 1998 might be better than the 1995 and the 1990.

I think that it's time to start dipping your toes into the 2009 Brézème Pergaud if you have sufficient stock.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by Jay Miller:
re Fourrier - I haven't had anything past 2008 but am told that they've gone spoofy some time since then. I don't know if it's true.

I don't believe so.

If you've always loved Fourrier, you will likely continue to do so unless there is a palate shift.

 

[Pavel Tchichikov]

originally posted by VLM:

Do you have any insight on the Barthod? I've had 2001 Mugneret show well so I thought maybe Barthod would too.

None unfortunately. A latecomer to Barthod here - started buying regularly with the 2010 vintage. I think there is a lonely bottle of 2001 Cras hiding that I am not about to risk anytime soon. Unless someone really important rolls into town.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by MLipton:

Yes, there’s been a noticeable lack of traffic on the Jeebus footie bored [...]
Mark Lipton

An interesting new departure for the crew here. Manolo Blahnik, anyone?

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:

originally posted by VLM:

Do you have any insight on the Barthod? I've had 2001 Mugneret show well so I thought maybe Barthod would too.

None unfortunately. A latecomer to Barthod here - started buying regularly with the 2010 vintage. I think there is a lonely bottle of 2001 Cras hiding that I am not about to risk anytime soon. Unless someone really important rolls into town.

Yeah, I've only got a couple 2001 Cras myself.

 

[Brian C]

Just a PSA: The winemaker for Le Piane is pouring at Vif tonight for those whose curiosity was piqued by this thread and happen to be in the Seattle area. I got the impression not many people were very familiar with the wines.