Speaking of Verdicchio

Steve Edmunds

Steve Edmunds
2108 Verdicchio di Castelli di Jesi, Azienda Santa Barbara Kermit Lynch Imports $12.00

Wish I could make wine this good and sell it for $12.00. And, of course, the producer doesn't get more than, what--$3.00 or $4.00? This is pretty damn impressive stuff.
 
1 Ha of vineyard land in the Matelica / Jesi appellations cost 20K to max 30K EUR, roughly. Many family-run wineries in the region operate in marginal economy. You get the picture. Your math is correct, EUR 3 / 4 is the common export price for entry level Verdicchio. Low demand for Verdicchio on both the domestic market and export markets doesn't help the producers, but it helps the consumers.
 
originally posted by Luca Mazzoleni:
1 Ha of vineyard land in the Matelica / Jesi appellations cost 20K to max 30K EUR, roughly. Many family-run wineries in the region operate in marginal economy. You get the picture. Your math is correct, EUR 3 / 4 is the common export price for entry level Verdicchio. Low demand for Verdicchio on both the domestic market and export markets doesn't help the producers, but it helps the consumers.

20-30k EUR planted or plantable bare land? Are most of the family-run wineries working on land that has been written off (at least mentally), because it was in the family for generations? Plus undervaluing their own labor, probably. Sounds marginal for any outside investor, for sure.

Conventional wisdom on the West coast these days would say, roughly, it's not feasible to survive making and selling under 20k cases at under $20-25/bottle unless it's most/all direct-to-consumer and even then it's dicey.
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Luca Mazzoleni:
1 Ha of vineyard land in the Matelica / Jesi appellations cost 20K to max 30K EUR, roughly. Many family-run wineries in the region operate in marginal economy. You get the picture. Your math is correct, EUR 3 / 4 is the common export price for entry level Verdicchio. Low demand for Verdicchio on both the domestic market and export markets doesn't help the producers, but it helps the consumers.

20-30k EUR planted or plantable bare land? Are most of the family-run wineries working on land that has been written off (at least mentally), because it was in the family for generations? Plus undervaluing their own labor, probably. Sounds marginal for any outside investor, for sure.

Conventional wisdom on the West coast these days would say, roughly, it's not feasible to survive making and selling under 20k cases at under $20-25/bottle unless it's most/all direct-to-consumer and even then it's dicey.

As hard to believe as it may be, I am talking a hectare of planted vineyard land. 50K Eur if your vineyard is in a prime site and your winery has a reputation and an established clientele. Around the year 2000, before the introduction of the EURO currency (which triggered a notable price inflation for all asset classes in Italy as well as the rest of Europe, sauf Germany perhaps) a hectare of vineyard land in Sicily, planted with 30 to 60 year old Nero d’Avola bushvines, in the finest spots around Pachino and Avola, complete with a century-old ‘Masseria’ (farmhouse) used to sell for ’20 milioni di lire’ (the equivalent of 10K Eur today). Just an example among many I could cite.

Those days are long bygone of course, but just two years ago a wealthy Chinese businessman who is a close friend purchased a 5 Ha wine estate in the heart of Monferrato (Piedmont), complete with fruit orchards, a perfectly functioning cellar with the relative machinery equipment and a beautiful XVIII century small ‘palace’ for around 700K Eur.
Unless you are in Barolo, Chianti, Montalcino, Valdobbiadene, Alto-Adige and the ‘Pinot Grigio belt’ of N/E Italy well the agricultural real estate market is still quite depressed in the rest of the country.

Obviously those growers in the Marches region of Italy who survive selling their entry-level Verdicchio at 3 / 4 Eur x bottle (and their top Verdicchio ad 7 / 8 Eur x bottle) they are 2nd generation or 3rd / 4th / 5th generation growers, meaning all the major fixed costs inherent to the foundation of the winery and the purchase of the vineyards are all long amortized. 'Undervaluing the daily labor'...yes very well said, that is what makes many family-owned / family-run wineries keep going (and when the family is short of young labor force, the Macaedonians, the Ukranians, the Romanians and the Albanians come in handy, they are all over Europe's vineyards today, Burgundy and Champagne included).
Last but not least, agricultural estates are not subject to any property tax in Italy (if you are a direct small grower or a Coop) and your annual revenues are subject to a moderate flat tax (25%).

This being said, for a young self-made-grower in the Verdicchio region starting his own winery today (likely with a conspicuous bank loan weighing on your shoulders) well the good old saying holds true...’if you want to make a small fortune in the wine industry, you better have a big fortune to start with’. Viticulture is a capital-intensive business and both the cash-flow and the return-on-investment are often far slower and poorer than the flashy world of wine magazines make wine consumers think.
Okay, if you do your homework well and your business plan is smart enoughafter 20 or 30 or 40 years you will reach the break-even point and therefore declare yourself ‘owner of a wine estate’ (to sell it out at x1.5, x2 or x3 times the initial price, if that’s the ultimate goal). In today’s perma-deflationary environment, I am not sure this game still plays out as it used to in the 70s, 80s and 90sunless you are in Burgundy, Barolo or Napa Valley.
 
originally posted by Luca Mazzoleni:
)...for a young self-made-grower in the Verdicchio region starting his own winery today (likely with a conspicuous bank loan weighing on your shoulders) well the good old saying holds true...’if you want to make a small fortune in the wine industry, you better have a big fortune to start with’.
Thanks for the copiously detailed response. Another local proverb here, cited often to those starting a winery without deep pockets: "don't quit your day job."
 
I am repeatedly amazed by the quality of Italian white wines relative to price. It's one of the few areas where a budget-conscious enthusiast can drink exceptionally well.
 
No one should buy these. Verdicchio, Fiano, Carricante, Timorasso, Garganega, Trebbiano Abruzzese, ... All swill. Their prices SHOULD be low!!!

(Wink, wink)
 
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
I am repeatedly amazed by the quality of Italian white wines relative to price. It's one of the few areas where a budget-conscious enthusiast can drink exceptionally well.

No great shock. Italian whites Long had a bad reputation and the ocean of cheap, insipid Pinot Grigio has done nothing to change that perception.

Mark “Pigato-boy” Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
I am repeatedly amazed by the quality of Italian white wines relative to price. It's one of the few areas where a budget-conscious enthusiast can drink exceptionally well.

No great shock. Italian whites Long had a bad reputation and the ocean of cheap, insipid Pinot Grigio has done nothing to change that perception.

Mark “Pigato-boy” Lipton

How can one disagree with this?
I remember back in 2001, my first days in NY, I was shocked at the sight of a certain infamous 'Holy Daisy' PG selling for 25 bucks on the shelf of some of the finest wine shops in NY.
Here in Italy this very wine has always been a supermarket wine selling for 4 / 5 Eur x bottle (and it still is).
I challenge you to find a single wine shop or restaurant in Italy that has this PG (or any PG from N/E Italy) on their wine list or assortment.
No doubt the wine industry in the Veneto / Friuli region of N/E Italy has been an all-too-eager 'partner in crime' in this whole PG connection...but in all fairness the big guns in the US wine distribution industry have an equal share of guilt and shame for engineering this absurd PG craze in the 1990s and 2000s (and they likely made a bigger profit out of it than the producers themselves).
A classic case study in wine marketing if there ever is one, for sure.
 
originally posted by Bob Semon:
Please stop talking about white Italian winesNo one should buy these. Verdicchio, Fiano, Carricante, Timorasso, Garganega, Trebbiano Abruzzese, ... All swill. Their prices SHOULD be low!!!

(Wink, wink)

Hi Bob, I hope you are doing well.
I would like to add the following comment: there is a deep-seated, archaical and unjustified cultural bias in Italy against expensive white wines. Like only red wines in Italy have a right to fetch a premium price.
Sure the production cycle of an unoaked white wine (what Italy's regional climats and native varieties are best suited for) is far shorter and less expensive than that of an equally ambitious, premium red wine, Barolo or Amarone for what matters. But who cares in the end? The proof lies in the organoleptic offering in the glass.

Well truth be told...I too would be a little disappointed to pay more than 3 or 4 Eur for half a liter of Trebbiano or Verdicchio 'by the carafe' at my favorite beach clubs in the Marches or Abruzzo next summer (two of the best low cost regions in Italy for your summer vacations).
Acquired expectations are hard to die...
 
originally posted by Luca Mazzoleni:
originally posted by MLipton:
No great shock. Italian whites Long had a bad reputation and the ocean of cheap, insipid Pinot Grigio has done nothing to change that perception.
Mark “Pigato-boy” Lipton

...but in all fairness the big guns in the US wine distribution industry have an equal share of guilt and shame for engineering this absurd PG craze in the 1990s and 2000s (and they likely made a bigger profit out of it than the producers themselves).
A classic case study in wine marketing if there ever is one, for sure.

You're giving the industry a bit too much credit in "engineering", a lot of wine market successes are a combination of luck, oligopolistic distribution and copycat marketing/sales. Although in this case Paterno/Terlato is partly responsible, through their positioning and distribution of Santa Margarita PG. Also, boring though it may be to this board, the flavor style is important. Sensory research has shown that dry, light, no-oak, subdued flavor white wines have strong appeal to a large population of drinkers with highly sensitive palates.
 
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
I am repeatedly amazed by the quality of Italian white wines relative to price. It's one of the few areas where a budget-conscious enthusiast can drink exceptionally well.

Interesting you should say that; balanced fruity fresh no-oak white wine is one category where I've had no problem finding quality and interest at low prices. Perhaps because this type of wine is feasible in larger scale and more efficient production. In addition to various Italian whites, I've had good stuff at $10-15 from Cotes de Gascogne, Bergerac, coastal Chile, South Africa, Galicia, Touraine, Muscadet, Slovenia, Finger Lakes, Michigan, Missouri (yes!) and even presumably too hot Lodi (in the form of Verdelho).
 
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
originally posted by Luca Mazzoleni:
originally posted by MLipton:
No great shock. Italian whites Long had a bad reputation and the ocean of cheap, insipid Pinot Grigio has done nothing to change that perception.
Mark “Pigato-boy” Lipton

...but in all fairness the big guns in the US wine distribution industry have an equal share of guilt and shame for engineering this absurd PG craze in the 1990s and 2000s (and they likely made a bigger profit out of it than the producers themselves).
A classic case study in wine marketing if there ever is one, for sure.

Sensory research has shown that dry, light, no-oak, subdued flavor white wines have strong appeal to a large population of drinkers with highly sensitive palates.

You are not serious, 'course. Obviously there is not a large number of consumers with sensitive palates, for wine or other food products. Subdued flavor? That means overcropped, cold-stabilized, fined, and filtered (maybe even carbon filtered to reduce flavor and color). In other words, stripped.
 
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Sensory research has shown that dry, light, no-oak, subdued flavor white wines have strong appeal to a large population of drinkers with highly sensitive palates.

You are not serious, 'course. Obviously there is not a large number of consumers with sensitive palates, for wine or other food products. Subdued flavor? That means overcropped, cold-stabilized, fined, and filtered (maybe even carbon filtered to reduce flavor and color). In other words, stripped.

I believe "the average American" has a timid palate.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Sensory research has shown that dry, light, no-oak, subdued flavor white wines have strong appeal to a large population of drinkers with highly sensitive palates.

You are not serious, 'course. Obviously there is not a large number of consumers with sensitive palates, for wine or other food products. Subdued flavor? That means overcropped, cold-stabilized, fined, and filtered (maybe even carbon filtered to reduce flavor and color). In other words, stripped.

I believe "the average American" has a timid palate.

If so, 'tis inconsistent with their movie palate.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by mark e:
originally posted by Christian Miller (CMM):
Sensory research has shown that dry, light, no-oak, subdued flavor white wines have strong appeal to a large population of drinkers with highly sensitive palates.

You are not serious, 'course. Obviously there is not a large number of consumers with sensitive palates, for wine or other food products. Subdued flavor? That means overcropped, cold-stabilized, fined, and filtered (maybe even carbon filtered to reduce flavor and color). In other words, stripped.

I believe "the average American" has a timid palate.

If so, 'tis inconsistent with their movie palate.

If by timid one might mean quiet, then you, O, are spot on.
 
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