One for the ages - the Professor will appreciate

  • Thread starter Thread starter BJ
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As I said, I think the 11s are turning out nicely also. I will start retasting 14s this year. I think they may also be in the style people here are looking for. But a warning: people who have not liked CdP since say 98 or 00, probably won't like these that much better. Alcohol in 13 is certainly lower (Charvin actually came in a tenth or two under 14%). But the days of 13.5 CdP seem to be a thing of the past regardless of vintage.
 
this last year i stumbled upon 2011 raymond usseglio regular bottling for a below current release price. not sure if he was biodynamic back then, but he has been for the last few vintages anyway. this is a wine done in concrete ala charvin so no woody intrusions, but with only 10% stems tamer than i desire. more lovely, less savoury. but a perfect demonstration of the 2011 vintage style.
 
JL, despite a missing L, may be on to something here - reviewing notes I've discovered that the highest incidence of recent positive outcomes with aforementioned sang des cailloux and telegramme is indeed associated with 2011 vintage.

I won't speculate on whether telegramme is vinified differently, because we don't speculate here (else Callahan will come back and kick our collective behinds). It does usually have more Grenache, FWIW.

As to not liking the wines as a result of being raised on the 80s and early 90s versions, I actually do continue to enjoy random CdPs in riper vintages. Keith has recommended therapy, but has not, so far, offered to pay for it. Off the top of my head, Charvin, Mont Redon, Famille Mayard, Texier.
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
JL, despite a missing L, may be on to something here - reviewing notes I've discovered that the highest incidence of recent positive outcomes with aforementioned sang des cailloux and telegramme is indeed associated with 2011 vintage.

I won't speculate on whether telegramme is vinified differently, because we don't speculate here (else Callahan will come back and kick our collective behinds). It does usually have more Grenache, FWIW.

As to not liking the wines as a result of being raised on the 80s and early 90s versions, I actually do continue to enjoy random CdPs in riper vintages. Keith has recommended therapy, but has not, so far, offered to pay for it. Off the top of my head, Charvin, Mont Redon, Famille Mayard, Texier.
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No need to speculate about vinification since the website lays it out. The main differences are that, as Pavel says, it has more Grenache and less Syrah and Mourvedre, it is completely rather than partially destemmed and it spends time in 30 hectoliter rather than 60 hectoliter barrels. Neither sees new wood.
 
Ah Bartleby! Ah Humanity!" Still, Rayas is 100% Grenache and, as the monkey as also stated, their cuvee from the same sandy terroir gives something of the same quality for a lot less money.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Ah Bartleby! Ah Humanity!" Still, Rayas is 100% Grenache and, as the monkey as also stated, their cuvee from the same sandy terroir gives something of the same quality for a lot less money.
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are you talking the rayas pignan? about the only wine that it is less expensive than is the chateau rayas itself.

a little more on theodoric--their top bottling is the 'grand pin', and it is next door to the pignan vineyard. for a lot less money. that being said, from the 2014 vintage to the 2016 vintage the price on the theodoric 'grand 'pin' has gone up a bit over 50%. retail on the 2016 is $100.00.
 
No, I was talking about the theodoric grand pin, which, I thought, was actually in the lieu-dit of pignon, though you may be right that it is only just next to it.
Lousy pronoun reference. Sorry.
 
thanks for the tip about the Theodoric. I'd seen it, but wasn't sure what it was. Not sure about the late harvest aspect tho...
 
originally posted by BJ:
thanks for the tip about the Theodoric. I'd seen it, but wasn't sure what it was. Not sure about the late harvest aspect tho...
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i haven't heard of a late harvest bent to the theodoric project. jll doesn't mention it. to quote him, "The wines are made in genuine hands-off fashion, and evoke the 1960s of laissez-faire winemaking, before the 100 point brigade rode into town."

and i have had the 2014, 2015, and 2016 vintages, and none of these vintages have had the marks of surmaturite (sp?).
 
originally posted by BJ:
Mourre du Tendre is another producer I have a lot of affection for.
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Me too, but I am afraid it may have changed toward the modern since the grandson has taken over. The two Cotes de Rhone have multipled into 4 and when I tasted them at Printemps au Chateauneuf, the CdR VV did not seem as distinctive as previous renditions. The grandson had also added an upgrade cuvee of the Chateauneuf which showed clear new oak on it. These wines take years to come around, even the CdRs, so if you are young enough, a wait and see attitude seems called for. Other than the new cuvee of CdP, which is irredeemable, the others may all turn out to be like the ones has grandfather mad. The grandson, after all, learned to make wine at his grandfather's side.
 
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