Two young Chenins, one especially excellent

O

Oswaldo Costa

Oswaldo Costa
2018 Bernard Baudry Chinon Blanc Domaine 13.0%
Chinon Chenin Chenin Chinon. Mineral, with a hint of anise. Pleasing texture, medium weight, slightly bitter finish. Lacked a little acidity at first but grew with food and as it warmed in the glass. Not particularly complex, but satisfyingly well-knit. Made us happy.

2017 Vincent Carême Vouvray Le Clos (Sec) 13.5%
Le Clos is from older vines. Gorgeous mineral (rain-on-the-sidewalk) aroma, with florals and talc. Equally gorgeous palate, with ideal weight and texture. Possibly a hint of oak, but, if so, deminniemouse. So pleasing that it borders on the spectacular. Gotta try more from this producer.
 
I expected DeMiniMouse to appear on one of Pete's menus before one of your tasting notes.

Is Mathieu able to continue to improve his Chenin? It seems so.
 
2017 Vincent Carême Vouvray Le Peu Morier 13.5% 20.75
From old vines planted on soils rich in flint. Spectacular aroma, more effusive than that of the Le Clos, ultra-mineral, floral, telegraphing purity and precision. A little dense on the Palatine, with appealing weight, texture, and balance. Has a curious flavor -- which I can only describe as slightly oxidized and bitter honey -- that I didn't love, so it ended up not being as well resolved as Le Clos; still very good overall, and might age in an interesting way, judging by a 2015 drunk recently.
 
The search engine shows that Carême has not really caught on with the folks here. I wonder why. The only longer commentary that appears is this 2012 paragraph from SFJoe:

Vincent Careme’s wines were also at the Renaissance, though he had twisted his ankle and couldn’t come. He is mostly finished with his conversion to Biodynamie, so this was his first year at the Renaissance. His 2010 Vouvray was clean, with good energy and nice medium-bodied fruit. Careme is stylistically perhaps more aligned with Chidaine than with Huet and Foreau, with a slow fermentation giving more flattering wines to taste. You could cheerfully drink his sec. The 2010 Le Peu Morier is from a single site with flint and clay about a meter deep over limestone. It wears its 10 grams of rs well and is a pretty wine in good balance. The 2009 Ancestrale pet-nat has only a small bit of pet-nat fur to add complexity and is a lot of fun.
 
Question: what do you get if you cross brett and mouse?
Answer: brettanomice!

I was almost reminded of this unchained canard when tasting a 2017 Baudry Grézeaux after the 2017 Peu Morier.

2017 Bernard Baudry Chinon Les Grézeaux 12.5% 17.50
Decanted three hours. Red fruits, leather and brett. Good weight, texture and balance, but has an animal/rancid note that might be a mouse (but there was considerable disagreement over this at a table of four, meaning that only I detected it).

I know we don't usually drink our Grézeaux this young, but if anyone has any handy and can take one for the team, I would love to know your impressions regarding the rodent issue.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
The search engine shows that Carême has not really caught on with the folks here. I wonder why.
Click to expand...

I'm not the Core Loire Chenin Crowd, but I think I tried a few Carême wines and they never grabbed me and then they got lost in the shuffle. Your notes were an inspiring reminder of all the options in this world!
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
The search engine shows that Carême has not really caught on with the folks here. I wonder why.
Click to expand...
Me too. I tasted them with SFJoe at the Salon des Vins de Loire once and we liked them quite a bit. I believe David Lillie brought them in for CSW (correct me if I am wrong). I only had one bottle in the US and remember not being quite as excited but that means nothing.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
The search engine shows that Carême has not really caught on with the folks here. I wonder why. The only longer commentary that appears is this 2012 paragraph from SFJoe:
...Careme is stylistically perhaps more aligned with Chidaine than with Huet and Foreau,
Click to expand...

I've always wondered why Chidaine doesn't get attention in this forum. I appreciate and love his wines. He makes wonderful stuff and has been doing so for a while in the face of local challenges. Is it some sort of fealty thing to others/other importers, a stuck moment with forum contributors who dissed his stuff or is it simply a lack of visceral experience with his terroirs?
I visited him in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2009 and 2010 after tasting his imported wines since 1997. I've walked the terrain and talked with him.
Where's the love?
 
originally posted by Karen Goetz:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
The search engine shows that Carême has not really caught on with the folks here. I wonder why. The only longer commentary that appears is this 2012 paragraph from SFJoe:
...Careme is stylistically perhaps more aligned with Chidaine than with Huet and Foreau,
Click to expand...

I've always wondered why Chidaine doesn't get attention in this forum. I appreciate and love his wines. He makes wonderful stuff and has been doing so for a while in the face of local challenges. Is it some sort of fealty thing to others/other importers, a stuck moment with forum contributors who dissed his stuff or is it simply a lack of visceral experience with his terroirs?
I visited him in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2009 and 2010 after tasting his imported wines since 1997. I've walked the terrain and talked with him.
Where's the love?
Click to expand...

Surprised to read this, since Chidaine has always seemed to be well appreciated here.

Not the metric to end all metrics, but if one types Chidaine in the search box, one gets 101 posts and 324 comments. To contrast with, say, Carême, who gets 5 posts and 5 comments.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Karen Goetz:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
The search engine shows that Carême has not really caught on with the folks here. I wonder why. The only longer commentary that appears is this 2012 paragraph from SFJoe:
...Careme is stylistically perhaps more aligned with Chidaine than with Huet and Foreau,
Click to expand...

I've always wondered why Chidaine doesn't get attention in this forum. I appreciate and love his wines. He makes wonderful stuff and has been doing so for a while in the face of local challenges. Is it some sort of fealty thing to others/other importers, a stuck moment with forum contributors who dissed his stuff or is it simply a lack of visceral experience with his terroirs?
I visited him in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2009 and 2010 after tasting his imported wines since 1997. I've walked the terrain and talked with him.
Where's the love?
Click to expand...

Surprised to read this, since Chidaine has always seemed to be well appreciated here.

Not the metric to end all metrics, but if one types Chidaine in the search box, one gets 101 posts and 324 comments. To contrast with, say, Carême, who gets 5 posts and 5 comments.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... Qualitative vs quantitative, ré number of posts......but thanks, Oswaldo for your response.

I am abstaining from further judgement since my recollections are subjective and sensory-based vs statistically verified.

I'm not interested in the antediluvian American pursuit of metrics as a reckoning of cultural/agricultural value.
 
I share your disdain for metrics as a reckoning of cultural value, but obviously they are fundamental all over the world in elections and other types of popularity contest (otherwise we wouldn't know who the next President is going to be). If you were to suggest that Huet seems to be way more popular than Chidaine on Wine Disorder, the fact that the former has 346 posts & 1488 comments v. 101 & 324 for the latter would be pretty convincing evidence of that and not, I don't think, an example of the American penchant for statistical analysis of everything. But, I agree, nothing qualitative is being said: it doesn't mean that Huet is better.
 
Hi Oswaldo,

My humor was buried in my bombast, I guess! I meant to mock my own culture rather than your reckoning and hope my comment can be viewed from that perspective.
 
originally posted by Karen Goetz:
Hi Oswaldo,

My humor was buried in my bombast, I guess! I meant to mock my own culture rather than your reckoning and hope my comment can be viewed from that perspective.
Click to expand...

Cool!
 
I like Chidaine. I’ve always liked Chidaine. Some (elsewhere) have questioned the soundness for aging of his wines from 2014-15, but I think the jury is out.

The oldest one currently in the cellar is a bottle of 2000 Clos Habert, which was doing nicely last time I had it about 5-6 years ago IIRC.
 
I am a big fan of Chidaine -- but distribution at retail can be very spotty here in the MudWest.

Clos Baudoin was seen for the first vintages after he bought it, not so much lately. Rarely, if ever, have I seen a wide representation of Chidaine cuvées on the shelf in the same way you can find Huët or, more recently, Guiberteau.
 
originally posted by Jayson Cohen:
I like Chidaine. I’ve always liked Chidaine. Some (elsewhere) have questioned the soundness for aging of his wines from 2014-15, but I think the jury is out.

The oldest one currently in the cellar is a bottle of 2000 Clos Habert, which was doing nicely last time I had it about 5-6 years ago IIRC.
Click to expand...

I've liked Chidaine, but my experience hasn't been good with aging them, so, frankly, I stopped buying them.

I do like Careme, though. His '17 and '18 Spring bottlings of negociant bought (long ties to those growers) fruit, were steals at $18-$20.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top