Biodynamics is a Hoax

[Nicolas Mestre]

I'm a little perplexed by this notion of biodynamics as marketing strategy.

The majority of wine buyers in this market don't really give a shit about the agricultural aspects of grape growing. Consumers maybe even less so.

To assert that wineries are converting to BD as a marketing strategy seems far fetched. Organic I get, since that is a label familiar to the Whole Foods crowd.

Although, I use to do business with WF back in the day and would try to promote wines made from organically grown grapes, etc and the wine buyers would say: that's great and then put the wine in the appropriate regional section because they felt like very few people bought bottles from the shelves labelled "organic."

For the cost of the extra labor alone that BD entails one could just hire an advertising agency or rent out a page in a glossy magazine.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Re: BD, I don't think I know what I'm talking about all that well, Jonathan, but, with due respect, I don't believe you do, either. Have you done any BD farming yourself?

If doing farming is the best way to evaluate the science of biodynamics, I'm out of business. By any normal protocols of scientific experiment, it's not. I am certainly not an expert. I have started such threads a number of times, and people on these boards who do have scientific degrees have answered, with links to papers published in reputable outlets that do detail things that look like experiments and I read them, out of curiosity. I'm still happy to be contradicted by people with accounts of experiments. And I will, even in those circumstances, still express curiosity as to how they propose, according to surrounding regularities of quantities needed to have effects and of the physics of lunar influence, to account for what the experiments seem to show. You don't have to be an expert in a field to evaluate evidence laid out before you by those who are.

No defense of biodynamics on this thread couldn't be offered, pari passu, for the tooth fairy.

 

[John Ritchie]

originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
I'm a little perplexed by this notion of biodynamics as marketing strategy...
To assert that wineries are converting to BD as a marketing strategy seems far fetched.

Bonny Doon?

 

[Nicolas Mestre]

Ah yes. Good point.

I'm a bit eurocentric as a result of only dealing with wines from that continent.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Bob Semon:

I'll see if the staff at my gym will stock some "KO" in the cooler next to the Gatorade.

Depending on which gym you frequent, there has historically been no shortage of KOs there.

Just sayin'
Mark Lipton

 

[Bob Semon]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by Bob Semon:

I'll see if the staff at my gym will stock some "KO" in the cooler next to the Gatorade.

Depending on which gym you frequent, there has historically been no shortage of KOs there.

Just sayin'
Mark Lipton

You're right. The proposed experiment does lack scientific rigor.

After all, there's usually a high risk of a spontaneous performance of Sweet Charity.

BobS
(who has dibs on the role of Charity Hope Valentine)

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Re: BD, I don't think I know what I'm talking about all that well, Jonathan, but, with due respect, I don't believe you do, either. Have you done any BD farming yourself?

.. You don't have to be an expert in a field to evaluate evidence laid out before you by those who are ...

Agreed, but some humility in presenting conclusion fits. But I guess this is a matter of taste.

No defense of biodynamics on this thread couldn't be offered, pari passu, for the tooth fairy.

I think defense is the wrong word, but even if you changed it to 'explanation' I would disagree.

 

[Thor]

"Humility" isn't a synonym for "ignoring the evidence."

I'm happy to continue drinking biodynamic and non-biodynamic, cosmocultural and monocultural, techno-farmed and raving-monster-loony-farmed wines without much caring what ridiculous philosophies inform their production.

But I'm also interested in the production methods, loony or otherwise, because I'm always interested in what there is to learn from them. That so many great producers either openly or semi-secretly use or dabble in biodynamics means that it's worth a very, very close look. But that still isn't the same as tossing the scientific method out the window. If a farmer's position is "look, biodynamics just speak to me and I'm not really interested in farming any other way nor am I interested in knowing more about it, so leave me alone," then I'm happy to leave them alone with their homeopathy and their cow horns. But if the farmer's position is "biodynamic farming leads to better wine," then I think an inquiry has been welcomed. And if that farmer is going to insist on that position, then I think it's up to them to find some actual science to support their contentions.

If there are (for the sake of argument) ten key differentiators between biodynamic and non-biodynamic agriculture, and eight of them can be scientifically proven to have no measurable effect (which is roughly analogous to the situation in which one finds biodynamics), it does the inquiry into the efficacy of the other two no good to insist that there might one day be some new field of science to explain the other eight, or that more "humility" must be applied to the reading of science that clearly demonstrates those first eight practices to be useless. The inquiry into the other two is certainly of interest, and science is well-equipped to embrace "we don't know" and "we don't know yet" as answers, but "wait a minute, let's go back to the homeopathy; I know it cleared my warts right up, so it must make better malbec" is kinda mindless.

Also, far be it from me to dissuade people from a firm belief in mysticism, though I'd suggest people so-inclined should really take a second look at the Norse pantheon. We offer bulk discounts on the Edda and will pick you up at the airport, though you're responsible for transporting your own goats and giants.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Thor:
Also, far be it from me to dissuade people from a firm belief in mysticism, though I'd suggest people so-inclined should really take a second look at the Norse pantheon. We offer bulk discounts on the Edda and will pick you up at the airport, though you're responsible for transporting your own goats and giants.

At the very least, people might learn to distinguish Frigg from Freya (for those who give a Fark).

Mark Lipton

 

[Thor]

No one cares about Valhalla any more. *sniff*

(Were Coad around, this would be a perfect time for a repost of you-know-what.)

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Maybe not the tooth fairy, but I've long believed in Tinker Bell. Here is my evidence:

1)As is well-known, Tinker Bell has a tendency toward near death experiences in the vicinity of theaters. The only cure for her is to applaud.

2)Tinker Bell's recuperation always causes actors to express gratification and happiness.

3)Whenever I become aware of uncoming Tinker Bell illness in the vicinity of a theatrical performance, at any quiet moment, I applaud warmly to revive her.

4)Upon Tink's recuperation, actors always then express gratification and happiness.

QED.

 

[John Ritchie]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

4)Upon Tink's recuperation, actors always then express gratification and happiness.

QED.

I, for one, am convinced.

 

[Sharon Bowman]

Aw, come on, that's as fishy as James Brown-style showmanship.

(And no, we will not note that my name is an anagram of A born showman.)

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Thor:
"Humility" isn't a synonym for "ignoring the evidence."

No shit, Sherlock.

 

[Cory Cartwright]

originally posted by John Ritchie:

originally posted by Nicolas Mestre:
I'm a little perplexed by this notion of biodynamics as marketing strategy...
To assert that wineries are converting to BD as a marketing strategy seems far fetched.

Bonny Doon?

Benzinger gets the gold star in this department. In fact I'd wager to say that if Benzinger didn't exist, this blog wouldn't either.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Maybe not the tooth fairy, but I've long believed in Tinker Bell. Here is my evidence:

1)As is well-known, Tinker Bell has a tendency toward near death experiences in the vicinity of theaters. The only cure for her is to applaud.

2)Tinker Bell's recuperation always causes actors to express gratification and happiness.

3)Whenever I become aware of uncoming Tinker Bell illness in the vicinity of a theatrical performance, at any quiet moment, I applaud warmly to revive her.

4)Upon Tink's recuperation, actors always then express gratification and happiness.

QED.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Thor]

I think most of the blame ultimately devolves to Joly, actually. But boy, those Benziger wines sure are yummy. *sigh*

 

[Cory Cartwright]

Ineterestingly enough I have found no evidence that Stu has read Joly, which if true is a huge oversight for his line of inquiry.

Yeah Benzinger is...yu...ahhh I just can't do it.

 

[Thor]

Maybe he's working up to it. You know, saving the best vitriol for last.

 

[Christian Miller (CMM)]

... I'd suggest people so-inclined should really take a second look at the Norse pantheon. We offer bulk discounts on the Edda and will pick you up at the airport, though you're responsible for transporting your own goats and giants.

It's so depressing when great old brands are reduced to price-cutting and freebies. But what can you expect - the Norse pantheon has had no merchandising muscle since the Vikings settled down.