2006 LAnglore (Eric Pfifferling) Comeyre Ctes du Rhone

O

Oswaldo Costa

Oswaldo Costa
2006 LAnglore (Eric Pfifferling) Comeyre Ctes du Rhone 13.5%
Carignan(90%), Grenache Noir(10%). Dark berry and leather, shape shifting considerably over the short time this lasted to include three-wise-men spices and eucalyptus. Juicy, with attractive acidity, balanced by fruit that turns to strawberry and light olive tapenade. Very attractive.

I thought this straddled a line between Loire cab franc and some of Eric Texiers CdRs, which launched a discussion with Marcia about this business of natural wines tasting more alike than non-natural wines, a concept I have difficulty with, but that seemed more plausible after the following analogy came up:

Take five randomly-chosen women without makeup.
Ask five different makeup artists to make them look as attractive as they can.
Are they more likely to look closer to each other with or without makeup?
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa: launched a discussion with Marcia about this business of natural wines tasting more alike than non-natural wines, a concept I have difficulty with...
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I think that is too crude of a comparison. I mean plenty of 'non-natural' wines taste alike because they are cheap basic plonk for forgettable drinking.

From my perspective, the issue is that certain practices mark the wine. (Duh!) In this case the carbonic maceration is a pretty strong technique, which is probably why you saw similarities with those other Loire carbonic wines.
 
Whole clusters are placed (gently, so as not to break the skins) into tank (usually closed), filled with CO2 and sealed. The grapes begin to breakdown from the inside out via enzymes present in them and a small amount of ethanol is produced without the intervention of yeasts. In addition to ethanol, small amounts of flavorful and aromatic compounds are formed. The process usually takes one to three weeks.
Generally, lighter, fruit forward wines are the result.
It is possible to do semi-carbonic or partial-carbonic by the use of dry ice in the fermenter. In combination with the temperature of the must being kept low, something similar to carbonic maceration occurs during the soak.
Best, Jim
 
Rahsaan, did you guess that Oswaldo's wine was made using the carbonic maceration technique, or is it common knowledge for those who know this producer?
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:
Rahsaan, did you guess that Oswaldo's wine was made using the carbonic maceration technique, or is it common knowledge for those who know this producer?
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I don't know about common knowledge but I always understood that Pfifferling uses carbonic maceration on some of his cuvees.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Whole clusters are placed (gently, so as not to break the skins) into tank (usually closed), filled with CO2 and sealed. The grapes begin to breakdown from the inside out via enzymes present in them and a small amount of ethanol is produced without the intervention of yeasts. In addition to ethanol, small amounts of flavorful and aromatic compounds are formed. The process usually takes one to three weeks.
Generally, lighter, fruit forward wines are the result.
It is possible to do semi-carbonic or partial-carbonic by the use of dry ice in the fermenter. In combination with the temperature of the must being kept low, something similar to carbonic maceration occurs during the soak.
Best, Jim
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jim. This is distinct from carbonic fermentation?
 
Don't believe Eric's CdR is carbonic, but he can correct me.

Oswaldo, I agree that the most likely reason for "natural" wines to take the same is the widespread popularity of carbonic methods.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Whole clusters are placed (gently, so as not to break the skins) into tank (usually closed), filled with CO2 and sealed. The grapes begin to breakdown from the inside out via enzymes present in them and a small amount of ethanol is produced without the intervention of yeasts. In addition to ethanol, small amounts of flavorful and aromatic compounds are formed. The process usually takes one to three weeks.
Generally, lighter, fruit forward wines are the result.
It is possible to do semi-carbonic or partial-carbonic by the use of dry ice in the fermenter. In combination with the temperature of the must being kept low, something similar to carbonic maceration occurs during the soak.
Best, Jim
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jim. This is distinct from carbonic fermentation?
Click to expand...

I never heard that term so can't answer with confidence.
Best, Jim
 
Okay; Wikipedia seems to use the two terms synonymously. It defines semi-carbonic a little differently.

Is the process of enzyme-mediated ethanol and compound formation within the un-crushed grapes also called fermentation, or is there another verb for it?

Thanks.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Don't believe Eric's CdR is carbonic, but he can correct me.

Oswaldo, I agree that the most likely reason for "natural" wines to take the same is the widespread popularity of carbonic methods.
Click to expand...

And here I thought "carbonic methods" were pretty much limited to Beaujolais...so it's fairly common knowledge that there are producers in the Rhone and Loire (etc.) regions who use this as well?
 
Dard et Ribo is fairly (in)famous for using carbonic, correct?

I'm fairly sure Puzelat also uses carbonic for some of his cuvees.
 
Ian,
Good question(s) . . . I can't answer.

Joel,
Carbonic methods (whether full or partial) are prevalent in many regions. I use them myself with syrah in Sonoma County, CA.

Best, Jim
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I agree that the most likely reason for "natural" wines to take the same is the widespread popularity of carbonic methods.
Click to expand...

Indeed, this being a good example of a "proactive" reason for greater similarity (perhaps there are others). What intrigues me most, however, is the idea that there may be "passive" reasons for greater similarity. For example, a bunch of naked people probably look more similar than a bunch of randomly dressed people; the more naked a bunch of wines are, the more they would reveal whatever common denominators are shared by all terroirs and all vinifera grapes (and our role as tasters is so focused on detecting particularities that we lose sight of the fact that they all sort of taste like wine).

Here my internalized Rahsaan says: but a bunch of people in uniform (i.e. & e.g., all wines made by Rolland) probably look more similar, despite their differences, than a bunch of naked people. Point, set and match.
 
No carbonic in my CdR, but plenty of white grapes.
Most of the Neauport disciples use rather pure carbonic.
Pfifferling is one of them.

If you take a closer look at their political message, then carbonic is to natural wine revolutionnary winemakers what Kalachnikov was to Guevara and his buddies : Efficient, without surprise, working ok in all circumstances...
Of course, I am just kidding.
 
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