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Who says Rudy can't fail?
- Thread starter gregory dal piaz
- Start date
Michael Lewis
Michael Lewis
I am intrigued by the claim that old bottles of wine have a certain smell. I presume this refers to unopened old bottles of wine. I noticed an odd musty smell on some bottles of 1990s Huet I bought recently, but I must admit I have not generally thought to smell old unopened bottles. Do others agree that they have a particular scent? If so, how would you describe it? Does it vary depending on the cellar in which the bottles were stored?
originally posted by SFJoe:
Horses, Barn DoorsJancis.
What's your point, Joe? Are you suggesting she's writing about this too late? It's not as if she hasn't been writing about the issue for years - she has and apparently (according to the posts on WB by various people very involved) was quite involved, largely behind the scenes, with getting attention focused upon the problem with the Spectrum auction by critical parties. This article is indeed a rehash of stuff she's written about for awhile, interspersed with the Latour bit, but it's for her mainstream FT audience and so for many of them, it's "news."
Maureen,originally posted by maureen:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Horses, Barn DoorsJancis.
What's your point, Joe? Are you suggesting she's writing about this too late? It's not as if she hasn't been writing about the issue for years - she has and apparently (according to the posts on WB by various people very involved) was quite involved, largely behind the scenes, with getting attention focused upon the problem with the Spectrum auction by critical parties. This article is indeed a rehash of stuff she's written about for awhile, interspersed with the Latour bit, but it's for her mainstream FT audience and so for many of them, it's "news."
I think the auction market has to be presumed to be quite corrupt. I've had that presumption for years now. I wondered before the AMC Ponsot auction, but after that there could be no doubt.
Jancis is a fine journalist and is doing good work for her readers, but it is a bit late to run around and mop up all the frauds.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
originally posted by SFJoe:
Maureen,originally posted by SFJoe:
Horses, Barn DoorsJancis.
I think the auction market has to be presumed to be quite corrupt. I've had that presumption for years now. I wondered before the AMC Ponsot auction, but after that there could be no doubt.
Jancis is a fine journalist and is doing good work for her readers, but it is a bit late to run around and mop up all the frauds.
But surely any fraud exposed makes the market that much better? Just because it might not be possible to totally eliminate the problem doesn't mean that it can't be reduced or that such activity isn't worth while.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
I recall that she's been talking about fraud for years. There are pieces on the FT site back to 2007 on the topic.
I don't oppose exposing frauds at all. I just think the market is so flooded with them, and the incentives of the players in the market remain what they have always been, that rapid improvement is unlikely.
Though it would be good to see a few more of those players in the pokey.
Though it would be good to see a few more of those players in the pokey.
You need to hold the flashlight under your chin when you say that.originally posted by Yixin:
If Rudy could fake old wines (convincingly, from what I know), what do you think producers, with access to original wines, bottles, corks and labels, could do?
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Yixin:
If Rudy could fake old wines (convincingly, from what I know)
yiz. and nyet. the fakes i have encountered have been as convincing as points. they simply work better for some more than others.
and, that, in so many ways, is how it goes, and why we should say, "so it goes": we aren't talking about the frog ganache with the killer spring, or cars that will lock you in for a spot of slow-roasting; or even a pill that will cure your acne at the price of your balls droping off.
nope, its whether or not hooch that your average dweeb can't tell from shit is actually teh shitz.
frankly, i'm not sure i give a fuck.
is that bad tie around your neck really the fault of your haberdasher? because the matter at hand seems to be not whether your hooch satisfactorily satisfies your expectations, but whether or not the fetid matter in your glass that you happily suck down at time t1 because you are told, "it is teh shitz!" (as you may or may not find it to be), turns out to be more shit that teh shitz when you wise up to your folly.
i'm 96 points on that!
or maybe 65. turns out most of the shit here is in the eye of the beholder. (ahem -- i know this turn of fatthought has its following, but the sink and i would like to take this moment to apologize to readers with a cellar full of 92 point $9.99 grenache and monastrell from coops in various unmentionable parts of spain: yes, deep in my chubby heart i feel your pain, but that shit wine you bought by the truck load with its "oodles of ripeness and outstanding bargain and drink now through 2042" that tastes like wood soup and cola is your own fault for believing that shelf talkers count as an inside track to a market inefficiency. uh, though actually, the fatsink says, "fuck you.")
is this shit so different? how about the wealth of motherfuckers who have deluded themselves that pinot noir = anything but god awful shit when grown in the mediterranean climate of cali? do we start having to qualify the degree of denial in those who ought to know better but are sucked into their own well of stupidity into our opprobrium?
i mean shit, rudy sells "21 petrus" and the newbs who know no better lap it up until someone decides to play god; similarly, mother fuckers in the beqaa valleys of dear old cali proffer variations on prune juice and make vague allegories to another, very different beverage produced in the old world. in either case, i'm sure there is a level of connection (rudy's petrus contains 62 mouton cadet, jim's prune juice was made from vines that occasionally yield potable and interesting wine in better climes in burgundy).
which is to say, of course there is a difference to the situation where you drink the "21 petrus" from rudy and it turns out later your were duped vs the rich and tender experiences so many folks have had with various new world "wines" that turned out to be over hyped dog shit that turned its toes up prior to the opening of the projected "drinking window", but in the end, if you can't figure this shit out for yourself, who cares? is your tie ugly if you can't tell?
not sure, ask a friend. still not sure? yep, right: buy it, and it is your own fucking fault if it later turns out that you are wearing a dumb ass fucking tie. if, and when, you later decide that your tie looks like ass, you learn.
or, in other words, given what is at stake, and the levels of self delusion in all this shit, the heat in this topic leaves me cold.
fb. (for the sake of the million lurking newbs, i felt this needed saying.)
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Fatz, the difference is visibility. If the Fatneck wears a bad tie, then it is only the Fatz who looks bad. If leaders and celebrities wear bad ties, then it warps the general shared sense of what beauty is.
---
And on that topic, let me share a tidbit from a certain archive that I find amusing. Halfway through the missive, the author begins a description of the second flight of wines that evening: "It was time for the flight of a lifetime, a flight whose three bottles cost more than..."
The bottles in question were magnums of 1923, 1937, and 1945 DRC Romanee-Conti. In the three long paragraphs that follow there is much purple prose -- the word "unbelievably" appears several times though the word "orgasm" only appears once -- and we also discover that, in fact, there were two magnums of the '37 opened for the evening.
The wrap-up paragraph for the flight begins: "The Burghound got up and shared some wisdom with us, as he could not stay in his chair after this flight! Allen joked that while 'only 608 bottles of this wine were made, over 40,000 have probably been drunk.' That got quite a laugh...."
---
And on that topic, let me share a tidbit from a certain archive that I find amusing. Halfway through the missive, the author begins a description of the second flight of wines that evening: "It was time for the flight of a lifetime, a flight whose three bottles cost more than..."
The bottles in question were magnums of 1923, 1937, and 1945 DRC Romanee-Conti. In the three long paragraphs that follow there is much purple prose -- the word "unbelievably" appears several times though the word "orgasm" only appears once -- and we also discover that, in fact, there were two magnums of the '37 opened for the evening.
The wrap-up paragraph for the flight begins: "The Burghound got up and shared some wisdom with us, as he could not stay in his chair after this flight! Allen joked that while 'only 608 bottles of this wine were made, over 40,000 have probably been drunk.' That got quite a laugh...."
Chris Coad
Chris Coad
originally posted by SFJoe:
Yixin,
I'm sure I have no idea. Care to hint at the depths of depravity still to be uncovered? (Now that Crossroads has closed, of course.)
Crossroads has closed??
Goddamnit. Where will I get my hot wine?
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Fatz, the difference is visibility. If the Fatneck wears a bad tie, then it is only the Fatz who looks bad. If leaders and celebrities wear bad ties, then it warps the general shared sense of what beauty is.
your views on my status and celebrity have been duly noted. otherwise, that's a pretty concise summary of the fashion industry. which, other than the buzz, is all that most folks want from their hooch.
The wrap-up paragraph for the flight begins: "The Burghound got up and shared some wisdom with us, as he could not stay in his chair after this flight! Allen joked that while 'only 608 bottles of this wine were made, over 40,000 have probably been drunk.' That got quite a laugh...."
yup. the ugly tie is always wrapped around some other loser's throat.
fb.
originally posted by Chris Coad:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Yixin,
I'm sure I have no idea. Care to hint at the depths of depravity still to be uncovered? (Now that Crossroads has closed, of course.)
Crossroads has closed??
Goddamnit. Where will I get my hot wine?
You need to get out more, Chris. It closed a year ago.
Cole Kendall
Cole Kendall
From the selling of quack medicines he had proceeded to the adulterating of foreign wines, varied by lucrative evening occupation in the Paris gambling houses. On returning to his native land, he still continued to turn his chemical knowledge to account, by giving his services to that peculiar branch of our commercial industry which is commonly described as the adulteration of commodities, and from this he had gradually risen to the more refined pursuit of adulterating gold and silver--or, to use the common phrase again, making bad money.