NWR: Searching for a College

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Since you disagree, Sharon, argue your point, and I'll do my best to respond.
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I was writing a longer thing illustrating my point, but it seemed a little absurd.

I'll just ask: When is the trump card (in society) of an elite educational background a "limiting impediment"? Sure, maybe she'd want to change the spelling to Garvard U. if she wants to apply to be a gas station attendant, but you tell me in which circles she'll get a door in her face with an elite university on her record.
 
originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
you remember the trouble Kerry had as a French speaker don't you?
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True. Though Romney and Obama have three Harvard degrees between them. And where did those Bush fellas go?
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
you remember the trouble Kerry had as a French speaker don't you?
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True. Though Romney and Obama have three Harvard degrees between them. And where did those Bush fellas go?
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There's been a bit of back and forth between the two candidates on who's less desirable based on their time at Harvard.

Earlier I was going to bring up that if she has presidential ambitions it's Harvard or Yale.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Re: prestige, imho, the two-edged sword cliché applies. Will your daughter be happy/achieve her potential as a life-long member of an elite 'club,' or would she ultimatley find such membership a limiting impediment?
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I asked myself the same question as, back in the days, I stood in the perilously congested aisles of Garnet, reaching for my first bottle of classified Bordeaux.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Since you disagree, Sharon, argue your point, and I'll do my best to respond.
Click to expand...

I was writing a longer thing illustrating my point, but it seemed a little absurd.

I'll just ask: When is the trump card (in society) of an elite educational background a "limiting impediment"? Sure, maybe she'd want to change the spelling to Garvard U. if she wants to apply to be a gas station attendant, but you tell me in which circles she'll get a door in her face with an elite university on her record.
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Well, two things. First, accepting the premise that peer environment is important, a young person contemplating college has to ask themselves whether the kind of people who place high value on attending a prestige-brand university are one s/he will enjoy, and learn from, spending four years with. Maybe that kind of social 'trump' is not to one's taste.

Second, does the young person in question want to be in a position to 'coast' on school brand and contacts, or might these things ultimately distract from substantial interests, and hamper from bringing forth best efforts. Prestige can grease your rails, true enough, but it can also blur your vision.

So, prestige can have value, but imho, this value should be weighed carefully against one's other values, as well as one's goals in pursuing a post-secondary education. It's not a free good.
 
All, it feels like Bill's particulars aren't really being addressed. He said his daughter probably can't get into Ivies or Ivy-ish schools (yes, there's lots of those), and like most high school juniors isn't thinking about being a college prof or working for a Global Investment Bank or McKinstry. Hell, I went to Georgetown and such things never even occurred to me (well, actually, being a college prof did but thank God I didn't pursue that).

I think the advice of a JYA is really good. You can do that from almost anywhere and it's really fun and interesting. I went to St. Andrews and had a blast, and it opens you up in a way that is good.

I think your daughter just needs to research the options. It's a good process to go through and will help here engage with her future. I think if she has an international bent being in an internationally oriented city is a good idea - she can do internships etc.

Another strategy if she thinks some of the higher end institutions might be a push is applying into some of the less competitive programs within the school and then transfering. For example the School of Language and Linguistics at G'town was a fair amount less competitive to get into that others and so schools which at first glance might seem to be not feasible might well be. And in that case that might be a preferred option anyway. I know several people who got into the SLL and then moved into the School of Foreign Service (the most competitive program to get into at GU) in their sophomore year.

I agree that Tufts and Hopkins are good choices but those are examples of schools that I think are very competitive within the programs they are known for. I am sure the Fletcher School is tough to get into.

I'm sure she'll do fine, she just needs to jump in and look at the options and go for it.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
the kind of people who place high value on attending a prestige-brand university
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Not that you're begging the question, or anything.
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Though I can't believe you can use constructions like "prestige-brand university" with a straight face.
 
originally posted by BJ:
All, it feels like Bill's particulars aren't really being addressed.
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Good point.

But a good argument is hard to quash.

Thanks for redirecting this to what is also a useful topic!
 
There was some discussion a while back on what 'begging the question' means. I understand it to mean, essentially, making an argument so weak that it 'begs,' rather than activity disputes, in favor of the question under discussion.

I don't think my point is weak; but if you do, again, please elaborate, and I'll do my best to respond.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
There was some discussion a while back on what 'begging the question' means. I understand it to mean, essentially, making an so weak that it 'begs,' rather than activity disputes, in favor of the question under discussion.

I don't think my point is weak; but if you do, again, please elaborate, and I'll do my best to respond.
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It's advice for a sophmore, she'll be a junior.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
the kind of people who place high value on attending a prestige-brand university
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Not that you're begging the question, or anything.
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Though I can't believe you can use constructions like "prestige-brand university" with a straight face.
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We could set up a Skype connection, so you can watch my face while I type.
 
My sister loved her small, liberal arts college experience. I was less enthused with my large, research university undergraduate experience. From my conversations with people in my peer group I gather that this trend generally holds true.

Sure, prestige matters, but Amherst and Swarthmore aren't going to be stains on anyone's CV and alums I know from these schools still enthuse about their time there. My Harvard and Yale friends, in contrast, seemed to hold far less fond memories.

And if Amherst is not doable, what about schools like Pomona, Oberlin, or my sister's alma mater, Bowdoin? Plenty of great schools where you can get a quality education and develop close relationships with both profs and fellow students.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Of course, there is a lot of international business that is not done by investment banks or major consulting firms.

We discuss some of those products on other threads, for instance.
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Could not agree more. I would tell a young person to build/invent/create something and stay far away from consulting or investment banking. Although this might just be a cynical view from someone who has been in banking way too long.
 
Banking's not that bad - I took economy class today and looked wistfully at the front of the cabin. Not really, but you know it's not all bad.
 
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