On endowmments, few people like to give big $ for student aid or operations. Usually it's for buildings or stadiums so they get naming rights and then the students get to pay to maintain and operate the buildings.originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I thought the jump in college costs came down to two things:
(1) Fifty years ago it was not obligatory to get a college degree to get a good job. But now it is, by middle class lights. So, there is a lot more demand.
(2) A bigger endowment is a better endowment so, like CEO salaries, all the effort goes into persuading rich alums. This results in fancy cafs, new halls, big labs, etc.
Magazine/periodical articles:originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
Well some believe it's partly a substitute for the dole.originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by VLM:
I'd like for universities to be solely about learning and knowledge.
...something that never existed, nor ever could.
It's called France.
I've never heard that.
Agreed, my comment was more of an aside. I recall press covering the idea of European higher education as a balm for high youth unemployment for ten years or so, but I don't have ready proof of that.originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Thanks, I can read them.
But they don't really fit in with what VLM and I were talking about above.
The prolonging education trend is a result of these pinched times. It may be very real, but it has nothing to do with the way French higher education has been structured for the past century and a half.
originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
you mean differently motivated. Vocational educational seems largely forgotten except by profit seeking corporations: ITT, etc. It's an area the US should put more emphasis on with the alleged return of manufacting.originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
By which I mean that in France, higher education costs just about nothing, is highly divided as to subject matter, and schools are stratified by level of students' performance. There are many technical schools for the under- or unmotivated or simply lesser wattage kids. What goes on in the bastions at the top is exciting, intellectually. There is almost no "campus life." University = place to sit in classroom and learn.
The downside is the extreme pigeonholing the system fosters. Try changing career paths in France, just you try...
The University of Phoenix has changed things, maybe for the worse. Some traditonal universities are trying to compete. All institutions need to remain solvent, but universities chasing dollars with full blown marketing staffs isn't likely to turn out well.
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
By which I mean that in France, higher education costs just about nothing, is highly divided as to subject matter, and schools are stratified by level of students' performance. There are many technical schools for the under- or unmotivated or simply lesser wattage kids. What goes on in the bastions at the top is exciting, intellectually. There is almost no "campus life." University = place to sit in classroom and learn.
The downside is the extreme pigeonholing the system fosters. Try changing career paths in France, just you try...
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
By which I mean that in France, higher education costs just about nothing, is highly divided as to subject matter, and schools are stratified by level of students' performance. There are many technical schools for the under- or unmotivated or simply lesser wattage kids. What goes on in the bastions at the top is exciting, intellectually. There is almost no "campus life." University = place to sit in classroom and learn.
The downside is the extreme pigeonholing the system fosters. Try changing career paths in France, just you try...
The French model wasn't necessarily what I had in mind. Something similar to my grad school experience (man, I could have stayed there forever) but on a larger scale.
Can you get a job at all in France as a young person?
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I don't have recently written books and studies to support what I'm about to say about rising costs, just some experience with my own university's budgetary choices...
... I don't know if it's worth it in terms of what students get educationally, but the only way to change it is to change the expectation of what goes on in the student experience of costly private universities.
I think the fixed costs have changed, but the IT infrastructure reduces other costs. Maybe not to the point of balancing out, but somewhat.
I would wager there were more secretaries who did typing for professors back in the old day.s
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
By which I mean that in France, higher education costs just about nothing, is highly divided as to subject matter, and schools are stratified by level of students' performance. There are many technical schools for the under- or unmotivated or simply lesser wattage kids. What goes on in the bastions at the top is exciting, intellectually. There is almost no "campus life." University = place to sit in classroom and learn.
The downside is the extreme pigeonholing the system fosters. Try changing career paths in France, just you try...
The French model wasn't necessarily what I had in mind. Something similar to my grad school experience (man, I could have stayed there forever) but on a larger scale.
Can you get a job at all in France as a young person?
It's not as bad as Spain
originally posted by MLipton:
Sorry, but the biggest factor driving up prices is the out-of-control growth of administration at most Universities. Over the past 5 years at my employer, faculty has shrunk by 2% and student enrollment has remained flat, while administration has grown by 20%. And those salaries are not small.
Mark Lipton
originally posted by MarkS: we need a piece of paper to supply "credentials", as if this mattered to Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or my wife's boss (self-taught, smart guy) for their career "goals".
originally posted by VLM:
My parents were giving me great advice, for their generation. My father got a PhD in history and ended up as a top executive at IBM. That doesn't really happen anymore, at least not for kids from middle class backgrounds (if you have the right connections, well, anything is possible).
Aromatherapyoriginally posted by Rahsaan:
...the question is what the next generation of CEOs will have studied.
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Zachary Ross:
The main problem is a bottleneck phenomenon - there just aren't enough good universities for all the qualified students. Supply and demand. Free availability of student loans has also helped pump up the prices, but it's a secondary cause.
Enrollment over time:
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nces.ed.gov
Sorry, but the biggest factor driving up prices is the out-of-control growth of administration at most Universities. Over the past 5 years at my employer, faculty has shrunk by 2% and student enrollment has remained flat, while administration has grown by 20%. And those salaries are not small. This is not an isolated case, either. Here's a treatise on the topic:
Fall of the Faculty
Mark Lipton
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
...Now all tenure-line faculty members have their own offices, each one equipped with an up to date PC. They are updated every 3-5 years. The University has a very complicated campus network that supplies us with our own clouds, plus various teaching programs such as Blackboard. One can order books from our library and a consortium library through a library program, and if one orders articles, they are emailed to you. Students are guaranteed access to computers because they are expected to be reachable through email, Blackboard, etc. I am only scratching the surface of all this...
Faculty salaries went up a lot in the 70s and 80s. After that, they mostly kept up with cost of living. But the cost of research faculty has gone way up. At research universities, we teach fewer courses and have more leave time through access to various granting organizations. Time away from teaching is the direct cost of research, and it is costly. Tuition, at teaching colleges and community colleges at which faculty teach 4 large courses a semester is much less expensive (and frequently, though it pains me to say it, the education one gets there, though basic, is quite strong).