Happy New Year!

originally posted by Arjun Mendiratta:
So this is the thread about wine? Amazing. I had assumed you guys'd be talking about 19th century sailboats and the proper spelling of lolcats at this point.

Anyway, we drank '02 Huet Petillant, '90 Raffault Picasses, and '04 Eddie Feraud Chateauneuf. I had a cold, so all I can say is that the first one was different from the other two. My dining companions, however, really enjoyed the Raffault.

Levi, how was the Engel?
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The Engel was showing very well. A treat in fact.

A bit more Vosne-esque darker fruit around the edges than might be expected of Engel. Nice aromatics. We sat with it for around 2 hours, trying other stuff in between and going back to the Engel. It was really good. Drink or hold.

re: overlooked Cote-Rotie of merit, I think Clusel-Roch fits that description nicely.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
re: overlooked Cote-Rotie of merit, I think Clusel-Roch fits that description nicely.
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Yeah, not so sure I agree with that.
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I agree with VLM? What's next, Kane agreeing too?

I've tried Clusel-Roch repeatedly (1998-2005 vintages) but been quite unimpressed. Their wines consistently have a synthetic/plastic note that I can't get around. More for others, I guess.
 
originally posted by mlawton:

I agree with VLM? What's next, Kane agreeing too?
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I agree that Cornas is a lot more exciting these days than Cote-Rotie, which I fear has lost any semblance of a price/quality ratio. Any Cote-Rotie I buy these days is '99 or earlier and only when I can find it stupid cheap, which is rarely.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by mlawton:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
re: overlooked Cote-Rotie of merit, I think Clusel-Roch fits that description nicely.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not so sure I agree with that.
Click to expand...

I agree with VLM?
Click to expand...

Feels good to be right, huh?
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I'm conflicted. I need to return to basics. I think I'll have to open a Souhaut tonight to get back on track.
 
originally posted by mlawton:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by mlawton:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
re: overlooked Cote-Rotie of merit, I think Clusel-Roch fits that description nicely.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not so sure I agree with that.
Click to expand...

I agree with VLM?
Click to expand...

Feels good to be right, huh?
Click to expand...

I'm conflicted. I need to return to basics. I think I'll have to open a Souhaut tonight to get back on track.
Click to expand...

AAAIIIGGHHH!!!! THE HORROR!!!!
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by mlawton:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by mlawton:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
re: overlooked Cote-Rotie of merit, I think Clusel-Roch fits that description nicely.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not so sure I agree with that.
Click to expand...

I agree with VLM?
Click to expand...

Feels good to be right, huh?
Click to expand...

I'm conflicted. I need to return to basics. I think I'll have to open a Souhaut tonight to get back on track.
Click to expand...

AAAIIIGGHHH!!!! THE HORROR!!!!
Click to expand...

Hater.
 
originally posted by john McCarthy:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by mlawton:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by mlawton:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
re: overlooked Cote-Rotie of merit, I think Clusel-Roch fits that description nicely.
Click to expand...

Yeah, not so sure I agree with that.
Click to expand...

I agree with VLM?
Click to expand...

Feels good to be right, huh?
Click to expand...

I'm conflicted. I need to return to basics. I think I'll have to open a Souhaut tonight to get back on track.
Click to expand...

AAAIIIGGHHH!!!! THE HORROR!!!!
Click to expand...

Hater.
Click to expand...

Only da game, not da playa.
 
I find the wines from Clusel-Roch to be aromatically interesting and very agreeable with extended age, often from less esteemed vintages.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I find the wines from Clusel-Roch to be aromatically interesting and very agreeable with extended age, often from less esteemed vintages.
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From what I have tasted I would never have guessed them to be candidates for extended age.

To which less esteemed vintages are you referring?
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:

From what I have tasted I would never have guessed them to be candidates for extended age.

To which less esteemed vintages are you referring?
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I still drink some brilliant '83 '85 '88 '89 '90 '91 '94(yes) from Clusel Roch.

'85 is every bit as good as '85 Dervieux Viallire (legendary good) and one of my favorite Northern Rhone wine ever.
'91 Grand Places, though not really ready, was one of the highlights of a 100% '91 Northern Rhone repas we had last may, on a par with Cathelin for me, behind Gentaz of course.

I am confident with the '99s.

'01s were the first huge disappointment considering the vintage.

I still buy each year hoping that the best will be back some day.

I don't really see who among the young generation made such pure and enjoyable Cte Rotie in the 80s and 90s.

Eric
 
originally posted by Brzme:
I still drink some brilliant '83 '85 '88 '89 '90 '91 '94(yes) from Clusel Roch.

I am confident with the '99s.

'01s were the first huge disappointment considering the vintage.
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Ok, I haven't tasted anything earlier than 2000 from them.
 
I don't really see who among the young generation made such pure and enjoyable Cte Rotie in the 80s and 90s.

Eric
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That's a very depressing statement, coming from an insider such as yourself, Eric. Is it just economics that creates such a situation, or is there something deeper at work? I understand the lure of Guigalesque points, but why should Cornas and St. Joseph be more immune than the hallowed slopes of Cte-Rtie?

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
I don't really see who among the young generation made such pure and enjoyable Cte Rotie in the 80s and 90s.

Eric
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That's a very depressing statement, coming from an insider such as yourself, Eric. Is it just economics that creates such a situation, or is there something deeper at work? I understand the lure of Guigalesque points, but why should Cornas and St. Joseph be more immune than the hallowed slopes of Cte-Rtie?

Mark Lipton
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I agree with your first statement, Mark. My non-insider thought is that the cause of this is the high percentage of land in Cote-Rotie that is controlled (or the end product created) by large concerns/aggregators and you see more independent holders/vignerons in Cornas and St. Joseph.
 
Saint Joseph more immune???

You probably have access to sources I can't reach!!!

For Cornas : smaller place and a very few vignerons who couldn't learn winemaking from their family or master. And the very few newcomers who couldn't, learned mainly from Colombo like in CR for a very similar style.

Don't forget that in the early '80s the acreage of land planted in CR was probably less than 50% of what it is these days. And most of the people who planted then, under the cheering of Guigal and al and mainly for selling grapes, were young people whom parents were working in the industry, mostly chemical in les Roches de Condrieu, or at the Nuclear Plant of Saint Alban de Roche.

The romantic Roman history of Cte Rtie had a huge hole in the "trente glorieuses" 50s, 60s and 70s.
 
originally posted by Brzme:
Saint Joseph more immune???

You probably have access to sources I can't reach!!!
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Touch, Eric. What I mean is that in St. J. I can find the wines of Gonon, Faury, Faurie, Chave, yourself, and now even Graillot. Granted, there is a lot of land in the AOC, but that's 5 more vignerons than I've got in C-R.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Eric. It still depresses me. The memory of Gentaz is not easily lost.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
I can find the wines of Gonon, Faury, Faurie, Chave, yourself, and now even Graillot.
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You must possess the Staff of Ra. From the above, I can only find the Chave St. Joe (why is it OK to say St. Joe and not Moose?).

Best,
Joe
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Brzme:
Saint Joseph more immune???

You probably have access to sources I can't reach!!!
Click to expand...

Touch, Eric. What I mean is that in St. J. I can find the wines of Gonon, Faury, Faurie, Chave, yourself, and now even Graillot. Granted, there is a lot of land in the AOC, but that's 5 more vignerons than I've got in C-R.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Eric. It still depresses me. The memory of Gentaz is not easily lost.

Mark Lipton
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Graillot's doing CR?
 
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