One for the ages - the Professor will appreciate

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BJ
1997 Raspail-Ay Gigondas. Limpid and light, just so on, terrific energy, a fab mix of earth, flowers, animal, green - . Old vine Grenache. Very solid and nicely evolving til the last drop.

I don't get my hands on wines like this often enough, but it's these that hooked me and keep me coming back.

One hears about Raspail-Ay and I don't see it often, and none of the times I've had it has it wowed. Now I get it.
 
It's a Kermit wine, so you should be able to find it. And it's still made the way it was. 23 years is longer than I would hold one, but it does age better than the run of Gigondases.
 
I believe Raspail-Aÿ is part of the Michael Corso Selections portfolio, distributed in NY/NJ by Vias. Maybe they DI some, so it comes in with their name on the label, I don't know for certain. Pretty classic stuff, although it is all destemmed, if that matters to you. I tasted the 1990 last year at the estate and it was still very pleasurable, but most don't last quite that long.
 
originally posted by Joe Cz:
I believe Raspail-Aÿ is part of the Michael Corso Selections portfolio, distributed in NY/NJ by Vias. Maybe they DI some, so it comes in with their name on the label, I don't know for certain. Pretty classic stuff, although it is all destemmed, if that matters to you. I tasted the 1990 last year at the estate and it was still very pleasurable, but most don't last quite that long.
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Joe,
I’m curious about your experience with all de-stemmed reds.
Simply a longevity thing or . . .?
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by Joe Cz:
I believe Raspail-Aÿ is part of the Michael Corso Selections portfolio, distributed in NY/NJ by Vias. Maybe they DI some, so it comes in with their name on the label, I don't know for certain. Pretty classic stuff, although it is all destemmed, if that matters to you. I tasted the 1990 last year at the estate and it was still very pleasurable, but most don't last quite that long.
Click to expand...
Joe,
I’m curious about your experience with all de-stemmed reds.
Simply a longevity thing or . . .?
Best, Jim
Click to expand...

Jim,

I mentioned the de-stemmed bit because I called it classic and I've heard the producer called old-school. So I guess that was my way of saying that while it ages only in large old foudres, truly classic/old-school would probably be vinified as whole bunches.

I imagine your question on longevity stems from my poor wording at the end of my comment, where I say, "most don't last that long." I should've written, "most *vintages* don't last that long," to avoid any ambiguity.

Regarding the longevity of fully de-stemmed vs whole bunch, I haven't found it possible to generalize. While I've had the opportunity to taste the same pick/parcel vinified with and without stems as young wines, I haven't had the opportunity to taste them together after even 5 years of age, let alone decades.

I hope you and your loved ones are staying healthy and safe. I'm really missing our chance at getting together in NC--the timing would've worked perfectly for me this year.

Best wishes,

Joe
 
Although, perhaps as a matter of Oswaldo like ideology, I would prefer wines, or at least Rhones, not to be destemmed at all, the number of domaines that never destem, no matter the year, is very small and would eliminate some domaines that most of us would consider traditional. In CdP, for instance, it would eliminate all but a handful of domaines, one of which would be Vieux Telegraph, which, unless it has changed, engages in partial destemming. So while I take Joe's point, it doesn't move me extremely to disqualify Raspail-Ay on that count.
 
Joe,
‘Appreciate the thoughts.

De-stemming, whether in the old world or the new, always fascinated me. IMO it significantly alters what nature provides but I’ve not been able to put my finger on exactly how that translates in a finished wine. Or more precisely, if that alteration creates repeatable results in a finished wine.
I tried making wine both ways and mostly preferred stem inclusion but preferences have little to do with the science of inclusion. Hence, my curiosity.

I too, was planning for Greensboro this year - I think it would be year 20 or 21 of the event.
But since we’ve been delayed (not cancelled, I hope), maybe I’ll dig a little deeper in my cellar to fool myself.
Best, Jim
 
I appreciate the discussion too.

It seems to me that old vine Grenache is pretty durable stuff, with or without stems. I've always been impressed by its resistance to heat damage.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:

I too, was planning for Greensboro this year - I think it would be year 20 or 21 of the event.
But since we’ve been delayed (not cancelled, I hope)
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Steve told me postponed to late summer/fall. I never really know until close to it but gonna try and make it. Joe, we live like 45 minutes apart, see you in North Carolina, hehe.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
It's a Kermit wine, so you should be able to find it. And it's still made the way it was. 23 years is longer than I would hold one, but it does age better than the run of Gigondases.
Click to expand...

I can testify that Kermit still does well south of the border, with decade-old sang des cailloux and telegramme showing very nicely these days - which is more than I can say for the latter's better-known sibling
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
It's a Kermit wine, so you should be able to find it. And it's still made the way it was. 23 years is longer than I would hold one, but it does age better than the run of Gigondases.
Click to expand...

I can testify that Kermit still does well south of the border, with decade-old sang des cailloux and telegramme showing very nicely these days - which is more than I can say for the latter's better-known sibling
Click to expand...

Really? You have a problem with Vieux Telegraphe? Since what year? I only taste it sporadically, and the most recent one I've had is the 09, but it seemed pretty much what it was.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
It's a Kermit wine, so you should be able to find it. And it's still made the way it was. 23 years is longer than I would hold one, but it does age better than the run of Gigondases.
Click to expand...

I can testify that Kermit still does well south of the border, with decade-old sang des cailloux and telegramme showing very nicely these days - which is more than I can say for the latter's better-known sibling
Click to expand...

Really? You have a problem with Vieux Telegraphe? Since what year? I only taste it sporadically, and the most recent one I've had is the 09, but it seemed pretty much what it was.
Click to expand...

2004 resembles something loosely associated with balance.

but telegramme is really quite lovely, so in theory they can make wine that isn't too alcoholic and overripe
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
It's a Kermit wine, so you should be able to find it. And it's still made the way it was. 23 years is longer than I would hold one, but it does age better than the run of Gigondases.
Click to expand...

I can testify that Kermit still does well south of the border, with decade-old sang des cailloux and telegramme showing very nicely these days - which is more than I can say for the latter's better-known sibling
Click to expand...

Really? You have a problem with Vieux Telegraphe? Since what year? I only taste it sporadically, and the most recent one I've had is the 09, but it seemed pretty much what it was.
Click to expand...

2004 resembles something loosely associated with balance.

but telegramme is really quite lovely, so in theory they can make wine that isn't too alcoholic and overripe
Click to expand...

Ah. I expect you should stick to cooler vintages like 08, 11, and 13 (I'm guessing about the last two based on other domaines). Telegramme is made from younger vines and will be a lighter wine. I am not aware that its abv is lower, but I don't keep track.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Ah. I expect you should stick to cooler vintages like 08, 11, and 13 (I'm guessing about the last two based on other domaines). Telegramme is made from younger vines and will be a lighter wine. I am not aware that its abv is lower, but I don't keep track.
Click to expand...

I see. Thank you. Perhaps that the last VT we tried was 2009 did not help!
 
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
Ah. I expect you should stick to cooler vintages like 08, 11, and 13 (I'm guessing about the last two based on other domaines). Telegramme is made from younger vines and will be a lighter wine. I am not aware that its abv is lower, but I don't keep track.
Click to expand...

I see. Thank you. Perhaps that the last VT we tried was 2009 did not help!
Click to expand...

That was the last I have tried, last year. I found it to be what they usually are in warmer years since at least 98. I can see why those raised on the wine in the 80s and early 90s might not like it, as they will not like virtually all CdP. I was amazed to find that Jay likes some CdP from 95 and before and realized that the problem was global warming. I've never tasted Telegramme with any regularity, but I'm surprised that younger vines, as opposed to the rare cooler vintage, does anything for that problem.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by Pavel Tchichikov:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
It's a Kermit wine, so you should be able to find it. And it's still made the way it was. 23 years is longer than I would hold one, but it does age better than the run of Gigondases.
Click to expand...

I can testify that Kermit still does well south of the border, with decade-old sang des cailloux and telegramme showing very nicely these days - which is more than I can say for the latter's better-known sibling
Click to expand...

Really? You have a problem with Vieux Telegraphe? Since what year? I only taste it sporadically, and the most recent one I've had is the 09, but it seemed pretty much what it was.
Click to expand...

2004 resembles something loosely associated with balance.

but telegramme is really quite lovely, so in theory they can make wine that isn't too alcoholic and overripe
Click to expand...

Ah. I expect you should stick to cooler vintages like 08, 11, and 13 (I'm guessing about the last two based on other domaines). Telegramme is made from younger vines and will be a lighter wine. I am not aware that its abv is lower, but I don't keep track.
Click to expand...

Yes, an ‘08 Pegau opened a while ago was a mid weight marvel of balance. What about ‘12? I’d thought it was on the cooler side, too.

Mark Lipton
 
I haven't opened any 12s since I first bought them. It was a more tannic year then normal, and Pegau, in particular was somewhat stern (though I don't think it will turn out as forbidding as the 95 and 05 always have been for me). The year was certainly not as ripe as 09, 10, 15 and 16, but it was not as cool as 08 or 13 certainly. I will try my 12s probably next year to see how they are doing. These days, I don't drink anything younger than 11 and I'm mostly holding off on 09s and 10s. Most 07s I've given up hope on and just take them as they come. I still do hope that Charvin, Ferrand and to a lesser extent Pegau might turn into something. The problem with those three has been out of balance tannin rather than stewed fruit. Charvin and Ferrnad show promise. I am starting to think Pegau will be like 95 and 05 except that it will never even acquire the Lady Bracknell like withering authority that the 95 Pegau developed after 15.
 
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